We began this blog years ago to tell the story of a baffling
New Hampshire mystery in the hopes of identifying four homicide victims found
in barrels in Allenstown, NH. Over time, and in the most peculiar of ways, the
story has unraveled bit by bit until we now have answers to many of our biggest
questions. However, some pages of this story remain hidden in the shadows. It
is our hope that the piercing light cast by genetic genealogists and tenacious
investigators will reveal more in the coming months. For most people in New Hampshire, the story began in the
fall of 1985 in the little town of Allenstown, population 4000ish and best
known for being home to Bear Brook State Park. It was there, on the outskirts of the park, that brothers out hunting discovered the remains of a woman and a girl wrapped in plastic near a 55 gallon barrel. |
Scott and I made our first trip to the Allenstown property where the barrels were found Memorial Day weekend of 2011. At home after home in adjacent Bear Brook Gardens (BBG) mobile home park when we mentioned the victims, we were met with similar responses, "Oh, you have your story wrong, there were only two bodies found." And when some of them went on to insist, "I know, because I lived here then," we were flabbergasted and even embarrassed to be the ones to deliver the news that two more little girls were found eleven years ago. The disbelief on both sides that day (albeit for different reasons) was the catalyst that made us decide that, if nothing else, there was work we could do around publicizing this story.
In 2012, I began searching online for an expert on DNA, someone who might be able to provide guidance around what more could be tried by New Hampshire authorities to identify the victims using their DNA. I stumbled across the website of Blaine Bettinger, an attorney with a Ph.D. in biochemistry and more importantly, a renowned genealogist. I called him and he graciously explained SNPs, genome sequencing, and work he has done to help sperm donor children reunite with biological fathers. Not having a strong science background, I was quickly floundering. I joined a Facebook group called Search Squad to publicize the Allenstown case and was asked if the victims' DNA could be matched to the submissions in the ancestry-type databases. I replied that I had consulted with Ancestry and the State of NH about this question and was told that "all DNA submitted to the registries has to be in the form of saliva samples for the manner in which it is typed." Someone in the FB group tagged CeCe Moore in this post. CeCe, a blogger (Your Genetic Genealogist) and media consultant on genealogy/DNA (Finding Your Roots, etc) responded to this by commenting, ""The subject of getting some of these cold cases into our databases is something that I have looked into extensively and have been working on with a cold case detective, but unfortunately, the info provided to JaneDoe Allenstown is correct. The type of testing performed on remains is a completely different type of testing and not comparable to our genealogy DNA databases. The only way to get the DNA into the databases we use is through saliva/swab. FTDNA is the only possible exception to that since they have their own lab and can be a bit more flexible. It really is sad because we could solve a large number of these types of cases if we could compare them to our databases. I spoke at a Human Identification forensic conference in September and discussed this subject with them, encouraging them to start their own database of samples using SNP testing (like we do) rather than STR (traditional law enforcement tests). It will take a long time to build up that type of database however."
Blaine and CeCe (2016 pic)
Little did we know that in a matter of a few short years, the use of genetic genealogy would revolutionize the field of cold case investigations and indeed, would be the catalyst that would begin to unravel the pieces of the Allenstown mystery. (And about the FaceBook name JaneDoe Allenstown referenced by CeCe in her comment above: this was our original name on FB. Until the day we asked too many questions of a police officer with a very bad guy for a brother-in-law and he reported us to Facebook for not using my real name on the page. Hence, the name change on FB to my own name after I got out of FB Jail).
Chief Connor wearing the jacket that the Die Hards gave him. He told us that they tucked a $100 bill in the pocket as thanks for him letting them have their annual barbecues in Allenstown.
Valerie and David. The barrel pic was from when we were studying the significance of the location of the barrels, the height and weight of victims compared to a 55 gallon drum, and whether we thought kids could have rolled a barrel 100 uneven yards with that kind of weight in it.
The lonely and unmourned deaths of the little girls in Allenstown disturbed me in ways I could not describe. I realized, over time, that the grief from the death in 2007 of our niece Paige was somehow linked to the emotions this case stirred up for me. Paige died in New Hampshire of leukemia at age two, a beautiful and funny and much loved little girl whose death staggered our family. The thought that another little girl around her age could be killed and discarded with no one to mourn her passing weighed heavily on me and provided momentum to the project. November 10th was not only the day Paige died, it was also the date, 22 years before, that the first barrel was found in Allenstown.
Paige, Peterborough NH
Sometime not long after we began researching this case, I took four stones from the Allenstown property where the victims were found and carried them with me on my travels. Someday, I vowed, I would write their names on those stones and lay this project to rest. Until then, they went back and forth from Maine to New Hampshire with me, rattling around in my trunk the way the puzzle of this story rattled around in my head and in my heart.
We decided our focus, in addition to re-creating the park, needed to be on searing the story into the consciousness of people in New England. In 2013, when updated composites of the victims were released, I got a phone call from CNN reporter Phil Gast who was doing a story to accompany the release of the new images. After doing the interview for that article, I naively hoped that tips would come rolling in as this was the most widespread coverage the case had ever gotten. Instead, we were contacted by psychics and "witnesses" to the murders (aka people with major mental health issues) and websleuths interested in the case but no one who could provide specific information. However, one comment by New Hampshire State Police Sgt. Joe Ebert in the CNN article did resonate with me. He stated that "someone critical to identifying the victims may not have come forward because of a sense of criminal liability or guilt for not having provided clues sooner." I thought about the last seven words of this sentence quite often and it informed the direction of our research.
NH Cold Case Unit, 2013: Mike Kokoski, ?, Scott Gilbert (Photo from Hippopress)
We designed this blog, made a Facebook page, updated the flyers when new composites were released, made and circulated memes on Facebook, reached out to media and retired detectives, joined the websleuthing community online and talked about the case with strangers everywhere we went. Scott had to remind me to keep my online comments positive as I was easily triggered by anything I perceived as apathy.
I inadvertently offended members of the websleuthing community by referring to some of the unstable characters who crossed our path in the true crime world as "Doenuts" (as in John Doe cases and the Doe Network). I hadn't coined the phrase but thought it a witty and apt term. I was chastised online for my disrespect toward those private citizens working diligently to bring attention to the world of the missing and unidentified dead. Suffice it to say, I apologized. Several times.
In the summer of 2014, we were researching half a dozen stories connected to the case, one being an anonymous tip about the victims being from a "gypsy" family. I called the Allenstown property owner Ed Gallagher several times to inquire about possible travelers who may have camped in the sandpit at the rear of his property and to run various names by him. At the end of July, Ed, likely exasperated with all my questions over the years and worn down with caring for an ill wife, mentioned that he thought the person who dumped the bodies on his poperty was one Bobby Evans. Surprised to hear a specific name after three years of phone calls, I was obviously curious about why he would connect this former co-worker to such a ghastly crime. Ed didn't offer many reasons, stating that Evans was odd and aloof and refused to discuss his past. I collected the stories about "Bobby" that Ed shared and Scott and I began looking for him- this electrician who worked with Ed at the Waubec Mill and who later helped him with refrigeration issues at Bear Brook Store.
I had one rather memorable phone call with a 72 year old electrician named Bob Evans in Manchester but he assured me that he had never worked in Allenstown and that he knew two other electricians named Bob Evans from the area as well. It felt like something out of a bad movie but we researched and eliminated Electrician Bob Evans #1, #2, and #3. At this point, I was becoming somewhat dismissive about Ed's suggestion and was heavily researching "travelers" out of South Carolina who passed through the Granite State doing paving jobs. There had been that odd anonymous query in 2013 from someone in SC asking "did two kids get murdered at bear brook 4 camp in nh?" Struck by the wording of "two kids" and not three and the way the poster seemed to be trying to verify a story they had heard, I was looking into the travelers of Murphy Village and missing children from SC on the genealogy forums. As for the Evans hypothesis? I thought that being "aloof" and "reluctant to discuss the past" pretty much summed up many folks in New Hampshire and hardly signified that one was inclined to saw up people and toss them away like trash.
Scott, however, couldn't shake the story and kept circling back to Evans. I called the state to check electrician licenses in that name but was told that they didn't have records going that far back. We called Gallagher, asking him if he recalled exactly where in Manchester Evans lived as he had driven him home at least once. He described the location as "east of Elm Street near the park where they have lights and play baseball." Strangely enough, this took Scott into the virtual backyard of the first Bob Evans we spoke with. We interviewed several other people who remembered Evans and their memories confirmed what Gallagher had said; he was odd, he was aloof, he was a mechanical genius. One person who had worked with him speculated that he had come from a warmer climate as he wore a winter jacket in New Hampshire year round.
After several months of fruitlessly searching for the whereabouts of the Bob Evans who once introduced his pregnant girlfriend to Gallagher in the most disparaging of terms, I turned over Ed's theory to the NH State Police in December of 2014. We let Gallagher know that we had passed it along and eventually began asking about Evans in the Bear Brook Gardens Facebook group. Surely someone from Allenstown remembered Evans and the girlfriend who drove him around in the faded gray or light blue VW camper.
In June of 2015 I went to Laconia Bike Week for three days to publicize the case. It was awkward kneeling on the Weirs with my cordless drill every morning to put my sign together but the bikers were interested and most of them said they'd never heard of the case.
As many of these bikers were from Manchester and Concord and Portsmouth, it reinforced again for me that the Allenstown victims could easily have come from NH. It was extremely disturbing to think that their killer may have walked free for years because their story got so little attention in the Granite State.
We considered many possible theories about the killer and the victims during those early years of researching. Sometimes the odd reactions of relatives of men we were asking questions about triggered our interest and resulted in their names being added to our persons of interest list. Perhaps the most puzzling moment came when a widow had her husband's ashes buried after speaking with us, ashes that had sat in her home for decades. Scott discovered this quite by accident and we wondered if she had thought we could get DNA from the ashes. The deceased man's brother volunteered his own DNA to the NH State Police to quell any doubts.
Collection of his DNA
Scott and I kicked all kinds of theories around. Did a sexual predator offer sanctuary to a family on the fringes? Did a woman already on the run cross paths with someone far worse than what she was running from? Or maybe the man she was running from caught up with her and the girls. We looked at local predators and posted our theories on this blog, hopeful that some comment or picture would jog a memory and an answer. We asked invasive questions of strangers and I began locking my house and car for the first time ever. It seemed likely that someone who was missing the woman, at least, had searched for her, perhaps posting about a sister who took off with a new boyfriend or about nieces that went into state custody, etc. We scoured the genealogy forums looking for queries for the missing and then reached out to the posters to see if they had ever located their lost ones.
One we didn't rule out
This 2001 query (below) caught our eye and we contacted relatives to see if Martha Douglass was still whereabouts unknown. She is. A 13 or 14 year old girl who had just vanished. We contacted law enforcement in CA who did not find any activity in any system on her name with that DOB. We provided NamUs information to the family in the event they want to list her in this database for the missing and unidentified.
And we wondered if perhaps the killer himself had fallen off the radar and was being searched for by relatives, so we perused the posts about disappeared men. The wording of some of these inquiries was often heart-breaking. We had never realized how many people out there are searching for "lost" loved ones.
In searching for missing/unidentified men, we came across two men in Massachusetts who need to get added to NamUs. One is missing man Edwin Thompson and the other is an unidentified man found in Newton in 1982.
Putnam, Daneault, Cyr
Some of the queries we followed up on led to unexpected developments. We found a post from a relative of Cynthia Louise Putnam missing out of Vermont since 1974. In researching her case, we came across what we believe to be the answer to her disappearance. We notified family members and authorities of our findings. Another name we came across while perusing old NH newspapers was that of Denise Daneault, a woman missing out of Manchester NH in 1980. After calling the Manchester Police Department and being told that she was not missing, I drove to New Hampshire and knocked on her son's door where I got confirmation that her whereabouts were, indeed, still unknown. Today, 39 plus years after she went missing, she still does not show up on the NH Cold Case Unit list of victims. Another story that caught our eye was that of missing Montreal child Yohanna Cyr. A person of interest in her case had once lived in Allenstown, and still lived in New Hampshire, causing us to wonder if Yohanna could possibly be the unrelated child in the barrel.
Some of the stories that came about because of the Bear Brook case:
Bonnie Lee Webster, Jane Doe 927, Tanya Williams
[Info to be posted soon]
Greene County TN Jane Doe, Elizabeth Lamotte, Christy Davis [Info to be posted soon]
In 2015, with the impending 30 year anniversary of the first barrel being found, I hoped to get some wider coverage of the case. Searching online for crime writers for the Boston Globe, I came across Shelley Murphy's name. Noting that she had written a book on Whitey Bulger, I decided she would be the one to approach, although I didn't have much faith she would be interested in doing a story for a deadline two weeks away. I called the number I found online and she answered. I explained my request about the anniversary and provided some background information and two weeks later, on the 30th anniversary exactly, she ran the story: Decades-old slayings of woman, 3 girls still baffle N.H. officials. Interestingly, this was the first time that Ed Gallagher's name appeared in print in connection with this case. He pointed the finger at transients and "unsavory characters" who lived in the trailer park and stated, "You just hope somebody on their deathbed admits something. How do you run around with all this guilt in your head?"
Murphy also spoke with two women who have significantly contributed to work on this case. Carol Schweitzer (a senior forensic specialist at the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children) and Kim Fallon (chief forensic investigator for the New Hampshire Medical Examiner's office). Murphy's article also profiled artist Carl Koppelman's depiction of what the victims may have looked like. His rendering humanized the family in a way that earlier composites had not.
Digital image created by Carl Koppelman
A week later, New Hampshire authorities held a press conference in Manchester, NH to announce the results of updated forensic testing on the remains of the victims. These updates were announced by Senior Assistant Attorney General Benjamin Agati.
Agati
Former Allenstown resident Ron Sayles and I attended the press conference. Crowded, hot little space and I distinctly remember the somber atmosphere in the room as Agati released new details about the victims' lives.
Lt. Joe Ebert NHSP, Captain Mark Armaganian NHSP, FBI Agent Scott O'Donnell, Lt. Scott Gilbert NHSP, Allenstown Police Chief Paul Paquette, and Matthew Peltier, National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
We learned that the isotope testing done on the victims showed that the woman and the two girls related to her may have lived in the areas highlighted in green on the map below (State abbreviations added by me).
TONIA COWAN/GLOBE STAFF
The third girl may have lived in the red rectangles in the yellow areas.
TONIA COWAN/GLOBE STAFF
It was a surreal experience to see the new composites of the victims flash onto the screen in that darkened room. When the image of the youngest child flickered from the projector, it brought tears to my eyes. So little, so defenseless. These latest composites were created by Joe Mullins, a forensic imaging specialist with the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.
As forensic science evolved over the last decade, it was interesting to note the evolution of the facial reconstructions. Each updated depiction of the woman's face generated renewed discussion online in the websleuthing forums as to the woman's ethnicity, particularly in light of the shovel-shape dentition that may have indicated a native american ancestry.
The name 'Bob Evans' appeared to be just one of many aliases used by the man who had disappeared from Manchester, NH with Denise Beaudin and her infant daughter Dawn. In a story that seemed too twisted to be true, we learned that Evans, living under the alias 'Gordon Jenson' had changed Dawn's name to Lisa somewhere along the way, abused and tortured her, and later abandoned her with an older couple in California in 1986.
Dawn/Lisa.
This couple ended up contacting the authorities and Lisa was eventually adopted into a family on the west coast. However, years later, the trail of fingerprints from her abandonment had led police to a man imprisoned in California under the name 'Larry Vanner.' Vanner was serving a 15 year to life sentence for the 2002 murder of his partner Eunsoon Jun.
Eunsoon Jun
When Jun's concerned friends had notified police earlier that year that no one had seen her for some time, her bludgeoned and partially dismembered body had been found under a pile of cat litter in the home that Vanner/Evans continued to live in. He had pled guilty to her murder, likely to avoid a trial where his past would have caught up with him. Later, when fingerprints from the Lisa abandonment case led authorities to him, DNA testing had revealed that he was not Lisa's biological father as he had claimed when he abandoned her. Although police questioned him in an attempt to learn where Lisa had come from, he refused to disclose any information. In 2010, he died of natural causes in High Desert Prison in Susanville, California. I imagine that Evans (as Scott and I will likely always think of him) probably felt triumphant about the fact that he had managed to take his darkest secrets to the grave with him. But if so, he clearly had not counted on the tenacity of several individuals whose pursuit of answers led to a day of posthumous reckoning.
(ILLUSTRATIONS BY TONIA COWAN/GLOBE STAFF)
Per the information issued by the New Hampshire State Police at the press conference, "The San Bernandino County Sheriff's Office worked closely with a genetic genealogist to help identify the little girl's birth family through DNA testing at several of the popular genomics websites." Specifically was this meant was that a pitbull of a detective named Peter Headley had paired up with Lisa, now married with children of her own, to help her identify her biological relatives. This years-long effort, funded in part by Headley and the genealogist herself, had come to be known as The Lisa Project.
Det. Peter Headley
Accessing cutting-edge genetic genealogy processes (more about this later because little was released in 2017 about how this transpired), the DNA trail had led Lisa and Headley to relatives in Manchester, New Hampshire and to an eventual reunion for Lisa with her maternal grandfather. It is ironic to consider how Lisa's search for her true identity proved to be the catalyst for unraveling Evans' legacy of lies around his identity. Somehow this seemed a little bit like Justice, with a capital J. While Lisa survived her time at Evans' hands, police stated that they feared that her mother Denise did not, although her body has never been found.
Denise in 1981
What happened next in this backstory is the part that linked the Lisa Project to the Allenstown case on the other side of the country. Ashley Rodriguez is an employee of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) who had worked on Lisa's case. When Ashley was looking at a map of New Hampshire after receiving confirmation that Lisa had been positively identified as Dawn Beaudin out of Manchester, she said "... it just dawns on me that Manchester is really close to Allenstown and to a case that Carol [Schweitzer] was working." Ashley, wondering if there could be a connection between the cases, reached out to Det. Headley in California and asked him if he knew about the case of the four victims found in Allenstown.
This suggestion led to further DNA testing that revealed that Bob Evans was the father of the little girl found in Allenstown in 2000 who was unrelated to the other victims. Her actual identity, however, was still unknown and police were concerned that her mother may have been another victim.
father and daughter
The identities of the woman and the other two children were still unknown but DNA testing showed that Evans was not related to these two children, nor was Denise the woman in the barrel. Authorities now believed that it was likely that the victims found in Allenstown were all killed prior to December of 1981 when Evans disappeared from Manchester with Denise. A possible clue to the adult victim's identity might lie in the story shared about a mystery woman named Elizabeth.
Was Elizabeth the woman in the barrel or was she the mother of Evans' daughter? Or was she someone else entirely?
It was an odd turn of events to now have pictures of a killer when his identity was still unknown. All over the country, investigators, genealogists, and websleuths began trying to figure out the real identity of the bogeyman who now had a face and a traveling bag full of aliases.
In April of 2017, authorities conducted a brief search (part of a day) of the acres of wooded property in Allenstown still owned by Ed Gallagher.
Apparently nothing of interest was found, although they turned over some leaves and pulled out some metal debris.
We thought back to the piece of electrical wire we had once stumbled across on the property and left in the leaves where we found it. An especially chilling sight after we learned that electrical wire had been used to wrap the bodies. However, we assumed the wire post-dated the killings though, as it was partially melted and likely had come from the fire in 1983 that burned the store. A fire that we had once imagined might have been set to cover a crime.
Skull of youngest child
Authorities had been vague about the specifics of the Rasmussen identification process and it would be some time before we learned of the amazing work that went on behind the scenes by genealogist Barbara Rae-Venter, the same genealogist who had also identified Lisa's biological family. And the Golden State Killer.
Joseph DeAngelo (Golden State Killer) and Barbara Rae-Venter
This had come about because Detective Headley had approached the DNAAdoption.com group to ask whether the process that was being used to assist adoptees in finding birth parents could be used to identify abandoned child 'Lisa.' Rae-Venter, a retired patent attorney, with experience in genealogical research using DNA, volunteered her time to assist Headley. By the time Lisa was identified, they estimated that volunteers had invested 20,000 hours into the project.
In one of those crazy small world coincidences that sometimes happens, the ripple effects of the effort to identify Lisa were even felt in my hometown in Maine. About 6 or 7 years ago I had attended several meetings of my local genealogical society in the Midcoast Maine area. At one of the meetings, the president of the group, Brian Bouchard, told about a brick wall he had run into in his research into the adoption of his great-grandmother. I had approached him after the meeting and explained that I had done a number of adoption searches and offered to work on his. He provided me with the data he had and shortly after that, I was able to provide the information he needed. Fast forward to September 2018 and I decided to attend another meeting as I had heard that Brian was going to present on an old murder mystery from the turn of the century in Maine. After his talk, I spoke with him and he said that he had been able to verify the information I had given him about the adoption when we had last had contact. I asked him about a long missing uncle he had referenced in his talk today and asked if he had submitted DNA to Ancestry in an attempt to find his uncle's family. He said that he had so I asked him if he had uploaded his DNA to GEDMatch.
Brian Bouchard
Brian replied that he had submitted his parents' DNA there. I told him about my interest in GEDMatch being due to its recent role in solving cold cases. He responded that, speaking of cold cases, an interesting thing had happened to him a while back when he had been contacted by a genealogist because some woman in California had been abducted as a child by a man she thought was her father but turned out not to be. The genealogist had asked him questions about his family tree because the woman was related to him. He gave the genealogist's name, thinking I might have heard of her because of her role in the Golden State Killer case. In ABSOLUTE disbelief, I stammered something to the effect, "Then you're related to Lisa?" Now it was Brian's turn to be surprised because he hadn't used Lisa's name in telling me this story. I told him he had no idea what a strange turn of events this was and explained my history with the Allenstown case. Still shaking my head about this crazy coincidence!
GEDMatch founder Curtis Rogers
October 2018. The first episode of the podcast Bear Brook was released. In 2015, I had met New Hampshire Public Radio reporter Jason Moon at the press conference where the new isotope testing results were released. Jason became intrigued by the case and began work on telling the story through the lens of a podcast. He came to Maine and interviewed Scott and I at my home. Impressed with his thoughtful, intuitive questions and a keen mind that could bring this story forward without resorting to sensationalism, I felt hopeful that this might be the vehicle that would bring the long-sought identities.
There were times over the years when I wasn't sure that the podcast would really materialize. Jason was covering things like Presidential candidates campaigning in New Hampshire and I remember emphatically saying to him on one occasion that NHPR should realize that the Allenstown story was much more interesting than Trump! But in hindsight, I am grateful for the production delays as it allowed the podcast to be released at the perfect time; a time when new developments in the case were breaking one after the other and decades-old questions were being answered.
Oak Hill Research: images from the podcast trailers
To listen to the podcast: Bear Brook: The Trailer, Episode 1: Hide and Seek, Locations featured in the podcast, Episode 2: Known Only to God, Episode 3: A Smaller Haystack, Episode 4: Eunsoon Jun, Episode 5: Bloodline, Episode 6: Chameleon, Update #1: Ripple Effects, Bear Brook Podcast: Genetic Genealogy and Privacy, 'Bear Brook' Podcast: How Genetic Genealogy is Transforming Murder Investigations, Update #2: Eric Rasmussen Episode 7: The In-Between
3. Could the DNA of the victims be run through the Ancestry type databases? Answer: No, as this is what CeCe Moore had answered in the beginning about using this process. Somewhere along the way, the answer became yes.
Being an INTJ personality type, I often had little patience for social niceties online and sometimes tired of having to apologize to folks for my "Yankee" brusqueness.
However, the waiting on science got old at times, and occasionally I would follow up on an idea that had gotten shelved. At one point, I took a metal detector over an area near the front of the Allenstown property and dug up a small stash of buried clothes (foil in the hole had apparently set my detector off).
She belonged to the Who is Bob Evans FB group (name was changed after Evans was identified as Rasmussen) where members would debate theories, post possible leads, and generate publicity for the case in the hopes that someone would recognize the story of the murdered girls. Rebekah, scouring the genealogy forums for posts about missing relatives, had come across this 1999 query:
Rebekah posted about the queries in the Bob Evans group in August of 2017 where they did not seem to generate much interest and she did not pursue it further at that time. However, someone from the group who read her posts messaged us that same month to ask if we were familiar with the name Marlyse Honeychurch. It was not a name we knew so we researched the family online a bit. Although I assumed that we would soon hear that Marlyse was ruled out as being the woman in the barrel in Allenstown, I was jolted a bit when I noticed that her birthday was January 28th, my birthday also. Strange, I thought, what are the odds of this mystery woman I have pursued for so long having the same birthday as I do? Scott, ever the pragmatist, answered, "1 in 365."
In October of 2018, after listening to the first two episodes of the Bear Brook podcast which referenced searching the genealogy forums, Rebekah thought about the McWaters/Marlyse queries again and decided to investigate them further. On October 10th, 2018, she contacted Lisa (the woman who posted in 1999 looking for her husband's sister) on Facebook. That evening, Rebekah learned that Marlyse had last been seen with a boyfriend named Rasmussen. And in that moment, she knew. She had just identified three of the four Allenstown victims. She said in interviews later that she hardly slept that night and she contacted Detective Peter Headley in San Bernadino, CA the next day. Headley reached out to NH authorities and the wheels were set in motion to begin the process of contacting relatives and testing DNA. And that DNA testing took time, perhaps lengthened by several unexpected paternity issues. The police had initially indicated that they were not going to release identities until all FOUR victims could be identified. However, once confirmation of three of the identities had been confirmed, and time was dragging on, there was pressure to update officially.
This update happened on June 6th, 2019 when the NH State Police held a press conference in Concord. There was a solemn atmosphere in the room as the victims' identities were confirmed as being Marlyse and her daughters, Marie Vaughn and Sarah McWaters.
As they did at past press conferences on the case, authorities presented a comprehensive slide show that walked viewers through the story to date. They explained that Marlyse was last seen by her relatives in 1978 at Thanksgiving in La Puente, California. Marlyse attended the occasion at her mother's house with Terry Rasmussen, whom the family only met this once. After Marlyse and her mother had an argument over a minor matter, Marlyse left with Terry. She and her girls were never seen again by her family. Updated timeline.
Marie (1975?)
It was a sobering and surreal experience to hear the police recount the events leading up to the family's disappearance. As I sat in the audience, I could not imagine how this day felt for Marlyse's relatives who had filed in just before the presser began and had taken seats in the front row, accompanied by the victim's advocate for the Cold Case Unit. Elsewhere in the room were people who had worked on or covered this case for years, a hushed reunion of sorts.
But most poignant for me was the stoic face of Rasmussen's youngest daughter, seated to my left. She had been unsure if she should attend, not wanting her presence to cause offense to Marlyse's family. But this last little unidentified child was her sister and she wanted to be there to honor her memory on this most difficult of days. She was the only sibling of "the middle child" who lived close enough to attend and I was glad she could be there, despite the shadow of sorrow that hung heavy over the room. Another woman in the room was Rebekah Heath, the researcher from CT who had discovered the identities. The police gave respectful and well-deserved credit to Becky and I have to say, to have a websleuth solve this case after all these years was a very gratifying development! I had brought the stones from the Allenstown property to the press conference and after it was over, I asked Becky to write the three names we now knew on them.
So... the wait goes on for answers as to the identity of "the middle child." In the meantime, police are hopeful that someone may be able to identify the children (and date and location) in these pictures that were in the possession of a relative of Sarah McWaters. The pictures were likely taken in December of 1978 or 1979 and show Marie Vaughn celebrating her 7th or 8th birthday.
There was some kind of miscommunication around the funeral service and relatives of Marlyse did not know it was happening when it did. Phone calls shot back and forth between the east and west coast the week of the service and Detective Headley reached out to the media to help get relatives to New Hampshire in order to attend. Thankfully, the 20/20 team with a couple days notice was able to fly Marlyse's siblings to NH.
Photo provided by Jerel Speck
Photo provided by Jerel Speck
While honoring two Bear Brook victims, anger is nowhere to be seen (Concord Monitor, Nov 10, 2019)
Paul Chevrette shoveling dirt into grave
NCMEC releases updated facial reconstruction of of "middle child"
Please share this on Facebook to help identify additional victims.
California deputy on Rasmussen serial murders: ‘There's more victims out there’
Do the police have any ideas about who may have done this?
ReplyDeleteDon't know what the police have on this case. Our goal is just to get information about the family out to the public in the hope that someone can identify them.
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like a guy name Scott Jakes. He lived on hospital ave near massabesic st. His spouse looks just like one of the pictures. Her name was Gail if I think about it. They had some kids and left the area during the night.
DeleteI'm not even finding a couple with those names who lived in NH
DeleteHe said he also lived in Laredo Texas. They wern't here that long as I think of it. They left at night. They also bothbhad southern acsent.
DeleteI heared the NHSP did look at the John Edward Robinson for this case but he was rule out
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting...I can see why they looked at him- all those women he killed and stashed in barrels. I couldn't find any connection to NH for him. They must have looked at Edward Mayrand, Daniel Vandebogart, Steven Roy, Lovie Lee Riddle, Victor Wonyetye, and William Dean Christensen too.
ReplyDeletehave you guys sent any info to the NH Cold cases unit??
ReplyDeleteNH Cold Case Unit is aware of this blog, but any info we receive we would try to verify first.
ReplyDeleteHere something I did over at the unsolved mysteries.wiki page
ReplyDeleteany info you can add is welcomed
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Bear_Brook_Remains
Outlaw, have you ever had the chance to visit the property where they were found?
ReplyDeleteNo,I had talk to someone who live down the road for where they would found. I did come across a good tip that I sent a long to the NH cold case unit
ReplyDeleteBTW
can you add info to the US wiki about page just to give most the info that we can on this case
How long ago did you send the tip and do you know if they ever followed up on it?
ReplyDeletecouple of mth ago and they hear of the person i was talking about
ReplyDeleteGet to think why this case was never profile on AMW
ReplyDeleteSo if that is true it open this case up as the work of a serial killer
ReplyDeleteWell, according to the May 31, 1987 Boston Globe article posted on this blog, "the police have:
ReplyDelete- Pursued and dismissed theories that the murders were committed by a serial killer or organized crime member..."
I think it´s possible that there was a serial killer. But why is there no one who is missing this persons? No parents? No sisters? No friends?
ReplyDeleteThere must be at least 2 fathers and 2 mothers for the children. Where are they?
What could be the explanation???
Unbelievable...
This case never got any media to cover it
ReplyDeleteI know some people that lived in the park in 2000 and they had never heard about the 2nd set of bodies being found. How the hell is that possible and why weren't they all found at the same time? I can only think of 2 possible reasons. 1. The police did a poor investigation and failed to find the other bodies in a barrel 100 yards away. Or 2. The 2nd set of bodies were dumped at a later time. Even if the police are trying to cover something up someone out there has to know something. This is a women and 3 kids horribly murdered and dumped like trash in the woods.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the land use for whereb the does would found and did the SP ever talk to the land owner or there friends???
ReplyDeleteVery mysterious! Possibly the environment of an extendet family? A closed millieu? Maybe a religous cult or something like that?
ReplyDeleteCould the killer be a trucker seeing that in was the area of Store and that why they have not id them
ReplyDeleteI found one case maybe they should look into and that the case of Janice Pockett of Tolland, Connecticut who when missing in 1973.her age and looks match up to one of the doe in this case
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pockett_janice.html
Nikodemus, we wanted to address your earlier comment about the serial killer possibility. In finding out that the middle child is not biologically related to the other victims, it did make us wonder if this was more along the lines of some kind of serial killing activity where the killer used this as a dumping ground for 2 crimes of unconnected victims. However, as you pointed out, there have to be at least two sets of parents to these children and they would have come forward if their child was taken by a stranger or whatever. We are thinking more along the lines of what you said in your last comment: some kind of extended family situation (i.e. someone with 3 children gets together with someone with 1 child and ends up killing all 4 children) or something. We have looked at religious cults in New England at that time too. As you said,it seems that there must have been some kind of out of the ordinary milieu (military family, incest, cult, trucker's family, carnival folks, migrant workers,etc)to account for the lack of a community outcry when these girls disappeared. Some story must have been woven for anyone who did ask: she left me and took the kids, the state took the kids, etc. And, is there another victim out there somewhere- the mother of some of them?
ReplyDeleteOutlaw, a truck or camper/RV or some vehicle like that would certainly make it easier to transport 4 dead people. And since they weren't brought in in the barrels, they had to be concealed somehow prior to being dumped in those barrels. A Concord Monitor article (Nov 13, 1985) that we recently added to the blog has an interesting thought: “Nearly all of the residents of the mobile home park near where the bodies were found were interviewed by police and asked if they had noticed any suspicious activity in the area since this summer. Though autopsy reports indicate that the victims were killed at least a year ago, officials would not comment on whether the bodies had been dumped in the Allenstown woods more recently.” If what this reporter is suggesting is correct, the bodies were stored somewhere else prior to being dumped there. Where? Under a trailer or in a shed or freezer or something? And Outlaw, we also have wondered about Janice Pockett (and others such as Marjorie Christina Luna) as being the oldest victim but wouldn’t know how to account for the fact that two of the other victims are related to her, so who would they be?
We appreciate all of the ideas… On May 9th, it will be 12 years since the little girls were found.
Maybe they were kidnapped and 1 kid was the kidnapper child from raping the victim. The 2 older we're related, possibly cousins from Canada. The unrelated kid was possibly another random kidnap victim. Check Canada missing from prior 10 years before the bodies were found.
DeleteThat's what I was thinking. I stumbled across this story on the Web today. My first instinct was that the adult could have been abducted as a child or something, years before and impregnated, which is maybe why noone is looking for an adult with children, as she might have been a missing child. Maybe this is the works of a serial child abductor, like the recent cases in the news. I'd check old cold cases for a missing child/teen, and see if her DNA matches up. I'd also look into group homes and foster parents. They are known for keeping poor records. Has their DNA been tested against criminals in prison? Maybe one of the men that fathered them is in prison or has a relative that is. And lastly, I briefly thought they might be new to the country from Eastern Europe. May God bless them, may we find their names soon, and bring those responsible to justice.
DeleteDuring this timeframe, a company in Concord was paying up to $5,000 for men with children to move to NH AND housing for a month as long as there were children with him. My family as well as an extended family member came from new York state. My dad just had to do a phone interview and we moved a week later when the money was wired. NH precision metal? Something like that? Was a tiny ad in newspapers nationwide, the whole motel next to the thirty pines motel was full of us, some from as far as California. There were two more motels and i think three hotels utilized by this company. Some people were let go within a week after the guaranteed first month. My father had become good friends with one of these guys (Ross, all i remember)who sent his family home and hung himself the same week. Maybe there is records of this company's migrant workers? I can get more accurate information by my mother but the timeframe struck me. There were allot of these guys that gave up everything, moved states away on a good rush manufacturing movement and lost it all in this month
DeleteI just saw your comment, Lisa. I would be very interested to know more about this. Can your mother provide any more details?
DeleteThat might have been Precision Technology in Concord, my husband worked for them around 2002, he said they hired a lot of ex-cons and immigrants and temp workers. They went out of business after the owner was embezzling money and not paying anybody, and the whole place had to be auctioned off.
DeletePrecision was on Route 106 in Pembroke..... Is this the place you mean? If so its REALLY close and nearly a straight shot to the area the bodies were found in. Their address was 39 Sheep Davis Road Pembroke, NH 03275
DeleteMapQuest says about 10 miles and literally one turn to get to the road... Not a far stretch....
It wasn't a machine shop but lots of machinery- they did mailings and printing.....
I wish LIsa would come back and update with more info about this company as this could be significant.
Be very interesting to know IF those barrels had any metal filings in them. Were any metal filings found on the bodies.? Or any printing type inks or dies.
DeleteLooking at the other NH Does cases the state has 8 cases of unknown john and janes doe case
ReplyDeleteThis one is 4 of the cases the other one ones
Unidentified Male found in Salem in 1969 and last I hear the FBI was looking at it as the part of the Highway killers Div
Unidentified Female found in 1971 in Bedford off where the highway is now last I heared it was getting look at that she was killed by Rodney Alcala
A woman and her boyfriend found dead in Franconia Forest in 2004 police believed they both planned their deaths(the man was id the woman was not)
Toe form an unknown john doe found at Sheila Labarre's house inside a firepit
Going back to Nicodemus's comment about the victims coming from a closed milieu of some kind: what about a connection to one of NH's biker gangs like the Die Hard Motorcycle Club, for example? Or to one of the area's religious groups like Green Pastures in Epping (aka The Emissaries of Divine Light)? And lastly, does anyone know what happened to Denise Daneault who disappeared from Manchester NH in 1980? Any possibility one of the local drug lords left her in the woods in Allenstown?
ReplyDeletePOSSIBLE.....
Deletehttp://www.mocavo.com/Denise-Daneault-1954-1980-Social-Security-Death-Index/15790536862005882032
That's her but she has never been found. Someone must have been able to declare her officially dead. Very curious.
DeleteThis was personal and the victims new their killer. I have a hard time believing a Motorcycle Club/Gang could do this. I could see them killing a man or a woman but not 3 Kids. Whoever did this has probably killed others, you don't just wake up one day and decide to kill 4 people. Look at how he disposed of the first two bodies. He didn't bury them, he wanted them to be found. Then he waits a few years and leaves the second set of bodies only 250 feet from where the others were found. He is making a statement like, look I got away with it once and now I'm going to do it again. He is an arrogant bastard and therefor has told others about this and other crimes he has committed. Someday soon someone he told is going to get tired of being an innocent victim and come forward.
ReplyDeleteSince the woman was related to the children, but not their mother...given her age - I would say perhaps their aunt....who may have been caring for them. Police need to check for a young woman dying and leaving three young girls behind....this would not have been an older sister, so I am thinking aunt...perhaps the woman's sister took them in after she died. The obituaries are out there...it is a time consuming task to take on, but you might get lucky.
ReplyDeleteHaving grown up very close to this area(since 1976 or so)....and knowing that myself, my sister, and many of the area children would run through this patch of woods to get to the small store...probably only a few hundred yards from where the barrels were found is particularly chilling. Often times I look for updates on this case, hoping something would pop up in my memory. First, these were school aged children...could there be leads there? Second...as I read the believed physical description of the children...immediately one family comes to mind. I do not recall the last name...but I recall a very large family residing in the mobile home park...they were several households...the grandfather always set off my pervert alarm....I also recall that within a 2-3 year period there was a mass exodus of these households...occurring between, I believe, 1985 and 1988. Many of the young girls in this gaggle of families had blonde and/or strawberry blonde hair.
DeleteI think I know the family group you are referring to. I would be interested in speaking with you further. Can you email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com?
DeleteSounds like this could be a credible lead...probably that grandfather did something and all the members of his household were too terrified to say anything. Maybe the woman was going to leave and take the kids and he killed her before she could? Maybe killed them all and when other family members asked, he said, "I don't know where she is... She took the kids and left me!"...Back then, it could have been plausible to disappear and none of the family would have been interested or able to locate them. Now with cell phones, social web networks, etc it's harder to disappear, maybe?
DeleteYes I would be interested in the name as well....Sounds like a good thing to look into for sure.
DeleteAnd could explain the non related one as well. IF the family was large and very convoluted it could be from another source just not blood relation. just a thought.
Deletehttp://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guthrie_leslie.html
ReplyDeleteLeslie and her daughter went missing in 1977
Sad that we have 4 murder victims and the state of NH won't familial DNA test them due to scumbags "rights". When are we ever going to get our priorities straight in this country??
ReplyDeleteI thought of Leslie's case from Katanoh, NY as well. We know LE doesn't often check beyond their own back yard, especially back in the 1980's.
ReplyDeleteWe just had a young woman from MD named Cynthia Gastelle identified this summer after 32 years. Cynthia was reported missing from Takoma Park, MD in April 1980, but she was found 2 year later just over the state line in Va. Yet - it STILL took 30+ years to tie her to the Va Jane Doe case. And even then, it was a websleuther who brought her case to the attention of authorities so a DNA match could be made with Cynthia's family. So let's give credit where credit is due.
And by the way, as far as Manuel Gehring's kids in the article above, the real hero of that story was a local woman named Stephanie Dietrich, a grocery clerk from Akron, Ohio, NOT LE. Stephanie, along with her dog, was the one who found the shallow graves of Philip & Sarah Gehring. They were murdered & buried by their father along the Ohio turnpike before hanging himself in a CA jail when caught. Stephanie went looking for those kids on her own, after reading about the kids abductions in 2003. Again, let's give credit where credit is due.
With that being said, I hope to God someone makes a match with these 4 victims. They deserve justice and their killer needs to be taken off the streets.
New Hampshire police DID investigate leads as to the identity of this family far beyond the boundaries of New Hampshire and even the United States and continue to do so to this day. The bottom line is that states have limited funding as to how they can allocate their resources in investigating these cases. It's too bad it comes down to money, but that's the grim reality.
ReplyDeleteOn another note: If the woman is not the mother of the two children w/her similar DNA, as the DNA testing suggests, then the Guthrie family is ruled out.
Could this case be ties to the Ct valley killing
ReplyDeleteNow she is the mother???
ReplyDeleteAnd what means "original sketch"?
ReplyDeleteNikodemus, the woman being excluded as the mother of the children and the middle child being excluded as being a relative to the other victims, was a misinterpretation or miscommunication. Apparently, those exclusions cannot be made. As to the sketches, they appeared in the news after the first 2 bodies were found. We do not yet have a date/source for where they appeared.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know when Vaclav Plch came to the US from the Czech Republic? He killed Mary Stetson in Manchester NH in 1999.
ReplyDeleteObviously a late reply and I'm not sure when he emigrated but ... as a close friend of Stetson's family and therefore, aware of most of the specifics of her case, I'd say a link was unlikely. Plch was disorganized, careless, and most likely a drunk. The Allenstown killer seems disturbingly meticulous and experienced.
DeleteThank you for that input.
DeletePlch didnt come to manchester until the early 80's. He was my neighbor. We called him William. He dated Vicky Lamos right before the conviction of the murder Mary Stetson.
DeleteDo you know where he was prior to coming to Manchester?
DeleteIm not sure. I think russia. He could barely speak english when I first met him. Vicky's brother Steve might know. He lives way up north..It was 1986 or 87 when I met william.
DeleteI think I found one guy to look at in this case
ReplyDeleteNY/Mass serial killer Lewis Lent because he was active around this time and he main target would kids .
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/8ufok.html
ReplyDeleteCould this be the woman's other daughter?
Your link doesn't work. Who was the child you were referring to?
DeleteThe case the person posted is the case of sharon marshall a case I know something about. Her case started back in 1994 when her son was kidnaped by his so called dad Franklin Delano Floyd(DNA would rule him out)and the son Michael Anthony Hughes was never seen again. When the police started to look at Franklin Delano Floyd's past who was married to sharon marshall it turn out sharon marshall. it turn out Franklin Delano Floyd show up with a little girl one day and he say she was his daughther but dna rule that out too.it turn out that little girl was sharon marshall and police think Franklin Delano Floyd kidnaped her when she was a little girl but no one who she is.I have read Franklin Delano Floyd did live in ct back in the 70's for a little bit.
DeleteI don't know, showing off his power to Sharon's friends even as they knew her as his victim...I truly believe if he tried to have another "family" people would have remembered him in particular in re with a young woman and three young girls, especially after Sharon's story came to light.
Deletegood job with this website. keep up the good work. it's nice that you care about these girls and the woman. what a sad story. i hope this can be solved soon thanks to new awareness and new technology.
ReplyDelete23andme has a relative finder, so I would hope that the victims would be eventually identified by identifying their cousins or aunts and uncles or great grandparents. I just don't know if the DNA is usable for that kind of testing.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the woman was kidnapped as a teen and held for a few years giving birth to a couple of kids such as what happened in Detroit to Amanda Berry. The other child could have been from another girl he abducted and impregnated. Has the police looked to see if the woman could be Laureen Rahn or Rachael Garden?
ReplyDeleteAny chance the woman could have been abducted at a young age, and kept as a sex slave....giving birth to the children while in captivity (much like the recent "Cleveland" case). What would the woman have looked like at 4-5 years old....8-10.....etc?
ReplyDeleteI agree with the previous 2 comments as a possible theory. I would take the age range of the woman, subtract the age of the oldest child plus one, and then sift thru missing persons reports in that time frame target. Perhaps the DNA could be cross checked with relatives of missing single females, profiled offenders, or even suicides of sketchy outliers. With all the variables there would still be a massive set of possibilities, but I imagine computer modeling could narrow things down a good bit.
ReplyDeleteIf this were the scenario, the perp may well have had estranged family members too. Maybe the story of the strange doings of the Amanda Berry guy as told by his daughter will trigger memories of someone in that late 70s to early 80s time frame.
Has the medical examiner run an isotopic analysis on any of their teeth? Especially on the kids to know where they were probably born? Isotopic analysis will indicate the area of the nation or the part of the world each victim was in when their teeth erupted because it marks the spot from which they were drinking groundwater. Pretty detailed charts have been created for the US by anthropologists to investigate migration patterns of ancient peoples (archaeology/anthro minor here:)
ReplyDeleteNot sure if something like that has ever been used for a criminal investigation, but I don't see why not. I think it would work especially well in this case since the woman's daughter and other related girl were so young. It would really narrow down the geographic areas they would have been exposed to at the times critical to dentin formation, so the cops would know where they were at pretty specific times (i.e, when the daughter was 18 to 36 mos, etc). Would definitely make searching birth, school, and police records a lot easier. A potassium-argon test could also give them a little smaller window on how long ago they were killed (not sure I saw any info in the news reports about how long investigators think they had been in the barrels).
Edit: looked at http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pockett_janice.html
Deleteper outlaw's suggestion that janice pockett's adult composite looks a lot like the adult composite here - totally right!! her teeth, mandible, nose and brow ridge in her childhood photos are also pretty close to the oldest kid here. no idea based on the story on the website how could be related to the others, but wow!
Edit #2: Just read (so much info on this great site!) that they did iso tests on the adult's hair, but no mention of the kids. They do describe what their hair looked like, so unless there was only a few strands, why wasn't it tested too? The 2 youngest might still have had hair from close to when they were born, giving the same info I detailed in my above post. I just assumed most of the hair was gone (that's what I get for writing before I read everything:)
DeleteHello, I look a lot for jane does and compare them to missing people reports. I was wondering if it was considered that maybe the older woman was taken and held for a few years before being murdered? On charlieproject.org there is a young woman who went missing in 1970...she looks like the sketch...mostly in the cheekbones and lips. Her name is Denise Marie Sheehy....I just figured I would throw it out there considering you never know how these things can turn out!
ReplyDeleteSomeone knows and its just a matter of time.The question is will the killer turn him/herself in, or will someone who knows who did it be the first to speak
ReplyDeletehttp://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/white_lisa.html
ReplyDeleteHer age progression does resemble the composite of the Allenstown woman
DeleteI also kind of wondered about another missing girl from Tolland, last name Speckler as well as White. I don't remember the details/names but there is also a case of a girl near allentown who disappeared late 70's I think, whose remains were found in an old derelict car in some woods somewhere. I believe cause of death was given as blunt force back of skull----I have wondered about the similarity of way they were all killed and disposed in woods in metal. Maybe a longshot---something about it "pings" on my radar
Delete11 yr old Debra Horn who disappeared from Allenstown in Jan 1969, found deceased several months later in a car in Sandown, NH. Unsolved.
DeleteReading about the (horrifying) case of the missing women recently rescued/found in Ohio, and similar abduction cases where a young person has been kidnapped and held captive for a lengthy period of time, even giving birth in that time---- I wonder if the unidentified adult female could be a missing child herself from a much earlier date. The condition of the teeth makes one wonder about adequate nutrition for a lengthy period of time as well as lack of dental care
ReplyDeleteThats exactly what I was thinking.
DeleteCould DNA be reviewed for genealogy and associated surnames? Also the unrelated child may be woman's step daughter perhaps child of perpetrator. If so, there could be old report of parental abduction or miss ing child report last seen with father, etc.
ReplyDeleteHave they reach out to the FBI's behavioral analysis unit???
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of the comments here. Please the police need to consider that she may have been a missing child or teen, herself, and held hostage and impregnated by a serial child abductor. Look at recent cases like the cases with Amanda Berry and Dugard. They need to check old cold cases for a missing child or teen. Maybe her family was not looking for a woman with children. They should check the DNA against men in prison or with records, as the men who fathered them could be in prison or have relatives who are. Based on the condition of the children's teeth, I do not think they were out in public much. Also check group homes and foster parents. I also thought of immigrants from Eastern Europe. But I really think it was a case where she was held against her will, maybe from a young age. God be with them, may their killer or killers be caught and brought to justice, soon.
ReplyDeleteYes, I was thinking the same thing myself ...the older women/ mother was probably a kidnapping victim from the 70's and gave birth to two of the children while being held captive ...and the other child may be from another kidnapped girl ...were all the children fathered by the same man? ...the investors really need to look into older missing girls and teens from the 70's to find the identity of the older women ...nobody is looking for a family because nobody even knew that they existed ...concentrate on the older women who was kidnapped as a child/ teen in the 70's as this makes the most sense ...and there were others ...who gave birth to the middle child? ...someone kidnapped and kept them for years and fathered these children ...maybe killing them when the older woman tried to escape with these children? Or maybe he wanted to start over and get another younger victim? ...please look into this... there are elderly parents out there who's daughter was kidnapped in the 70's... she was alive for years and her abductor fathered her children!
DeleteEisenhower Park Long Island New York
ReplyDeleteThe drum may be from NY not the Bodies
ReplyDeleteCan you give us any more information about your Long Island comment? What makes you say the drum may have been from NY? Do you have any thoughts about where the victims were from? Feel free to email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteThank you to all of the people who have contacted us suggesting that the Allenstown victims could be Mary Stuart and her children from Honeydew, CA. Although NAMUS appears not to have updated their database to show them as exclusions, DNA testing has ruled out the Stuarts.
ReplyDeleteI was reminded of the Allenstown case when I read about the Poughkeepsie case.
ReplyDeleteThere are similarities. Could they possibly be related?
A horrifying and perplexing case. Really hope it can be solved one day. Someone has gotten away for this for far too long-and we can only hope that they haven't killed again since.
ReplyDeleteDid you see that NH police may have gotten a break in the case of missing girl Rachael Garden?
ReplyDeleteYes, I saw that. Spring of 1980 was a bad time in NH for missing young women: Rachael Garden (March), Laureen Rahn (April), and Denise Daneault (June).
ReplyDeleteThey should look at a guy already in prison for these. His name was Jack. He was a tall guy from merrimack. He was convicted of rape. He raped a few women that never came forward. He is the guy they need to check out.
DeleteCan you provide any more information about Jack? I would like to look into this but could use a little more info about him.
DeleteAre you referring to Jack Z Higgins?
DeleteThat could be it. He was from merrimac and was convicted for rape. He is very tall. Like 6'6" maybe. When those girls started turning up missing, he had raped a few other women that didnt come forward. He knew those women and they were easy targets for him. The ones that died were street walkers at that time. When we heard he got charged we all thought he killed them. He was a strange person when he drank. I can't think of anhthing else. When his harley got hit by a truck he started crying. We didn't understand why he did that n front of like 25 people. That happened on valley st. Seems strange that once he was charged. The deaths also stopped.
DeleteYes. I think that is his last name.
DeleteHere is a few readings I get from this case: The boyfriend or very recent ex-boyfriend of the woman did this to the family. He worked in a factory or near a river (barges). He may have drove a light colored truck with a blue tarp in the back. He worked away from the area. The family had recently moved before the murder. The child not directly related is cousin or a very close family friend. The oldest woman's mother had recently died. The family lived above a garage or on a rented property. I feel the case definitely happened early 80s not late 70s.
ReplyDeleteI got chills reading this. I replied with my gut on an above comment before seeing yours and you nailed it
DeleteYou are talking about the yearn factory by sun cook river. That runsaid all the way down to the bow power plant. And by ferry street
DeleteSome News in this case?
ReplyDeleteJust found your site from the CNN article. I think it's great that you setup this blog to collect tips. I hope one day there will be some resolution to the case.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Anonymous June 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM - that's what I was thinking as well and would explain why two of the children might be linked to the woman genetically and why the other girl looks similar to the other girls as they might all have the same father.
Someone should look at John Edward Robinson and see if he could have been in the area at the time. He is already in prison - a convicted serial killer. But the m.o. Is similar.
ReplyDeleteThis case is not done by a serial killer. Also, it can be assumed that the four all knew each other and perhaps lived close by the park of which their bodies were found. Seeing that they each had poor nutrition then that would mean little money. The killer, then, possible had little or no income. Why would the killer travel miles away with no money. Also, why would the killer risk of being seen with 50 gallon barrels and traveling a far distance?
ReplyDeleteIn light of more recent events in the news, has the possibility been investigated that the oldest victim was kidnapped as a child? Perhaps the two girls are her daughters (and the third, maybe the child of a second kidnapping victim). In this case, the existence of the 3 younger victims would be entirely unknown (which is why there was no missing persons report).
ReplyDeleteI just noticed that an earlier commenter made a similar suggestion. Has this theory been investigated?
I know that this possibility has been explored. How thoroughly, I do not know.
ReplyDeleteSo the teenager missing from North Conway - Abigail Hernandez - what's up with all that? The police say they don't suspect foul play but the FBI are up there and are offering a $20,000 award??
ReplyDeleteJames Robinson
ReplyDeleteHow does Robinson tie in?
ReplyDeleteAre you referring to John Edward Robinson- the serial killer others have mentioned on here? Or does your comment refer to something else?
ReplyDeleteIf this was the work of any serial killer someone who would be at the top of list would be Lewis LEnt. The reason because he was active around the same time and his mo matched up in this case
ReplyDeleteHave you considered a man named Robert Steffen, they say he died in prison for molesting his grandchildren and threatened to bury them with the other bodies if they told? He happened to live on Edgewood Dr. that runs parallel to the trail that the bodies were found off of.
ReplyDeleteOver the past two years, we have been researching the mobile home park of 1977-1985 and contacting as many of the former residents as possible. We are interested in talking to anyone who lived in the park during those years. Bob Steffen (also known as Bob Holmes, Bob Stone, Joseph Howard) is a name we have come across. If anyone has an idea about who the victims are or how they might have been connected to anyone who lived in that area, we would like to speak further with you. You can email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com or call 207-841-2526.
ReplyDeleteFor clarification, not implying that Steffen or anyone who lived there had anything to do with this- just curious about why he used all those names.
DeleteSo yeah.....I think this is an incest case where dad/grandpa/uncle killed everyone involved. But has anyone checked out dentists/orthodontists in the area? Grown woman had "extensive dental work" and all the kids had apparently bad teeth. So...without being judgmental.....either there was incest, bad tooth care, or good tooth care which would imply some sort of dentist.
ReplyDeleteHave LE put the dna through the c.o.d.i.s. dna data system? If the killer was a relative, they may be incarcerated for something else..just my thoughts..
ReplyDeleteRIP little ones
I see a lot of similarities in facial features between Cynthia Dawn Constantine (missing 07-11-69 age 15 in NY) and the composite of the adult female. She fits the age range too. I would appreciate thoughts on this comparison. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/constantine_cynthia.html
ReplyDeleteI will pass along Cynthia's name. Per NAMUS, she has DNA listed in the database so if she hasn't already been compared to the Allenstown woman, it would be worth doing. Thank you for taking the time to mention this.
ReplyDeleteConstantine was ruled out as a match.
DeleteHave they attempted to match the oldest victims DNA with Lisa Joy White?
ReplyDeleteI am not sure but will pass the suggestion along. White is on our short list of girls to consider as well.
DeleteThese deaths happened very close to September 10 1969 plus or minor a year. Your first step in solving them will be in adjusting your timeline. I am witness to this event, but I was very young and am unsure about weather it matters to come forward after 45 years.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your post. We'd like a chance to hear your memories as 1969 is a lot earlier than we had been considering. Even if the person who did this has died, it does matter. Do you know who the woman and children were and is there a reason that September 10th sticks in your mind? You could email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com or even anonymously drop a letter in the mail: Ronda Randall, 54 Middle Bay Rd, Brunswick ME 04011.
DeleteI chose September 10 only because I remember that the older kids had gone back to school. I was not in first grade yet. I am 52 today. At some point I will send you my recollection of events. I do not know the woman and children. I believe they were what was then called qypsis ??? I believe they were staying at local churches and shelters and hustling work in the local area.
DeleteDo you know who did this?
DeleteDid the event you witnessed happen in Allenstown or somewhere else?
ReplyDeleteA man named Freddy Comtois recently died in the NH State Prison. I have been told that he once lived in the Bear Brook Gardens Mobile Home Park with a girlfriend. I have been unable to determine his girlfriend's name. If you know her name, could you email it to me at oakhillresearch@gmail.com? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteAnd he was in jail for murder....hmmmmm. What if the Mitchell guy He killed knew something.?
DeleteJust a thought.
I have been following your blog for updates and saw the above comments by the anonymous poster. If they are correct about these murders it would make sense as to why they were not reported as missing. The gypsy community has very little trust in the police. But that does not mean they were not loved and missed. I hope that individual tells all they know.
ReplyDeleteWhat would not match up with their story would be that the oldest victim had 'extensive dental work'. Possible, but atypical of that population during that time period.
The gypsy angle is an intriguing one. Thanks for all your work in keeping this case alive.
ReplyDeleteWe used the word "gypsies" because that is the word used by the person who posted on here in June identifying the victims as such. We realize that the word is often used to describe many groups of Travelers- the Rom, the Irish Travelers, the Polish and Hungarian gypsies, the "Terrible Williamsons," etc. Many of these groups passed through NH from the south on their way into Canada, peddling goods and doing blacktop work etc and staying at campgrounds and trailer parks. One 2013 news article out of Cape Girardeau, MO (http://www.kltv.com/story/23094943/new-lead-in-48-year-old-missing-toddler-case) mentions a possible connection between the 1965 disappearance of Elizabeth Ann Gill ("Beth") and some travelers who passed through Missouri. We would like to hear from anyone with information/memories of Travelers passing through NH in the 1960s -1980s. Thanks.
DeleteBased on forensic data suggesting that the victims were killed in the early to mid 1980s, it is not likely that the person who posted of witnessing an event in 1969 could be referring to this case.
ReplyDeleteHello, I often wonder about and check in about his awful case, hoping that it's been solved.I Know DNA has been done to determine if this woman and the children were related but has DNA been done to tell us what their genetic ancestry and what ethnicity and regions from around the world their ancestors came from? Like the DNA tests on Ancestry and Nat Geo? Just curious if this has been done as it may help provide more information that might lead to other clues. Thank you for keeping this blog going! Lisa
ReplyDeleteLisa, we also had wondered about this avenue for possible identification. A couple of years ago we contacted Ancestry.com about this. Apparently, those programs only categorize DNA from saliva samples and are not compatible with the way DNA is collected from bodies. I also communicated with Dr. Blaine Bettinger (a "genetic genealogist") about this. I don't pretend to understand the science behind the way that DNA is sequenced but apparently it's not an option here. I need to pursue this further though.
DeleteBettinger told me about the public mitochondrial database mitosearch.org. He also told me about the Y DNA database. I think both of these databases are run by Family Tree DNA: http://www.familytreedna.com/ I wish I had a better understanding of why the victim's DNA cannot be entered into these databases. I will inquire further.
DeleteThe FBI has a very informative site about this topic: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet
DeleteThank you! I will keep hoping this crime is solved soon. It's so hard to believe someone/s could murder and throw away 4 people like trash, especially children. It's difficult to think that no one, family, friend or neighbor isn't missing or wondering about them. Again, thank you for not forgetting this mother and children. Regards, Lisa
DeleteAren't there tests that can be conducted on teeth and bones that can provide clues as to an individual's geographic origins (from minerals they have absorbed from water, etc.)?
ReplyDeleteCindy, isotope testing was done to try to determine where in the country they had lived but apparently the results were either not deemed to be accurate or so broad that a helpful geographic location could not be isolated.
DeleteThank you for this information. I had been wondering about this type of testing.
DeleteI live in the park during the years 77-87. I was aged 5-15. I remember when the first two bodies were found. It was disturbing, my parents were worried that it happened in our quiet little park. My grandparents were the park managers at the time. They had several adult children with children who lived in the park as well. We are the Loucks family. The adults and my grandparents were all contacted at the time.
ReplyDeleteFor many years my grandparents spent many colder days in their Florida home. They were golfers and enjoyed the Florida sunshine. When they decided to retire and move permanently to Florida, we moved too. Some of our family stayed north and some relocated. All are living except for my grandfather, who died approximately 2 years ago. Feel free to contact me privately and I'll provide any information that you deem helpful.
Best, Amy Loucks Hopkins
ahopi@msn.com
Amy, I wonder if we know each other. I lived in the second trailer near the house , the one that burned down.
DeleteAmy, thank you for contacting us! I sent you an email with a couple questions we have for your family. We are working on contacting every family who lived there between 1977 and 1985. What has been most surprising is that almost no one heard that the little girls were found in 2000. I guess it was barely publicized and families were never re-contacted.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone thought of scanning the area for other bodies? Buried perhaps? Two sets of bodies were found in the same area at different times in the same type of drum says it's obviously the same killer. Was the second drum there the whole time and just missed by investigators in 1985 or was it brought at a later time? If they were killed at the same time and brought there at the same time why would the killer drag the second barrel 250 yards away? Why wouldn't he/she just leave the two barrels side by side? He/she obviously had no concern of hiding them very well. Is it possible this killer used this property before and was more careful in hiding the bodies of other victims at earlier dates and just got lazy or was planning suicide soon after these murders? I am not sure how they would scan the grounds for bodies. I am assuming dogs or some kind of scanning equipment.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that the above commentator mentions suicide. I remember a body being discovered just off from New Rye Rd in that period of time, of a male. I believe it was found in a swampy area just up from the stop sign at end of New Rye Rd. This road runs parallel with Old Deerfield Rd. Both that and the other bodies being found were not publicized much. In fact I really do not remember hearing of the barrel discoveries at the time and I lived within a couple of miles from there.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone follow up on Robert Steffen or his family !? Seems like a good lead. Also the unknown poster for 1969 seems very weird like they know more. I know they said 80s but couldn't weather and environment effect the time frame and or decomp of the bodies ? If the unknown poster reads this please come forward with any info even if you think it's not important just send a letter detailing the events and all the details of what you saw and know don't put a name or return adress just help lay theae children to rest
ReplyDeleteForgot to add about Lisa white from CT the women aged 22-33 looks very similar along with the child time frame would match up age 13 when went missing 10 years would have made her 23 and the child would have been from rape and seems to match up please let me know on the two post please been following this case for about 21/2 years
ReplyDeleteKatie, Lisa White's name has been passed along not that long ago to the people who do DNA comparisons. As far as Steffen, that was looked into. As you can imagine, so many rumors went around back in the 80s re. this person or that one that decades later it is hard to sort through what is hearsay and what is fact. Ultimately, until someone comes forward with a concrete suggestion as to who the victims are, it is almost impossible to guess who may have put them there. Many men and their families have lived under a shadow of suspicion for decades. In a way, they are victims of this crime too and solving this will give their families closure too. Scott and I very much appreciate the way these men and their families have met with us, been open to what can feel like prying questions (i.e. "Wait, where did you say your ex-wife lived? Missouri? Well we are going to need to contact her just to close that line of research"). Almost without exception, these families have been cooperative and helpful even though at times it felt awkward for both the researchers and the researched.
ReplyDeleteRegarding further searches of the property, I don't know how thoroughly or not the area has been searched. That is a question for law enforcement. There is amazing technology out there today- this case in Canada http://www.poynter.org/how-tos/writing/271351/cbcs-effort-to-uncover-bodies-in-a-58-year-old-triple-murder/ has riveted us. I don't think it was ever said that the barrels were the same, but again- only the police would know at this point. Thank you to the person that mentioned the unsolved murder (body found on New Rye Rd). Some strange doings out there. And of course, the still unsolved Debra Horn killing- another little girl from Allenstown found bludgeoned and nude. For a quiet little town, I would have to say it's had more than its share of violent death.
ReplyDeleteyes, and to think I lived there then, it is crazy to even think it. It really blows me away. kim
DeleteI lived at the entrance of Bear Brook State Park from 1983-1989 (teenage years) and then moved up off of New Rye Rd. I remember spending many nights partying in the Bear Brook "Pitts" with teenage friends. Those woods weren't desolate, there was always someone you'd bump into. Bear Brook was a place to swim, hike, bike snowmobile, hunt and yes, party. When the hunter found the woman and girl I was surprised at how "quiet" they kept such a horrific discovery (hence many folks never hearing of the case)....I am still mystified that someone didn't see something??? Around that same time I was followed by a neighbor of mine whom my father had already given a "warning" to. I was walking alone to the Park to swim and he followed behind in the woods. Needless to say I was beyond frightened!!! Luckily I ran into a friends parents who were able to give me a ride home. I NEVER walked to or from the park again. One of the above comments also made me wonder if there were perhaps more undiscovered bodies? It's strange to me that in the initial investigation they didn't discover the other two little girls? One would think that finding two bodies would have investigators combing the area. That being said, if the other two girls were placed there after the investigation was over, I still find it baffling that no one would see a man carrying a barrel? One last thing.... I do remember a mans body being found off New Rye Rd. another story that wasn't talked about much. Was he, the man they found, in fact a suicide? I hated driving that road at night. Bear Brook definitely had a creepiness to it........
ReplyDeleteI would be interested to hear about the neighbor your father warned you about. Can you email me the name at oakhillresearch@gmail.com?
Deletewow this reminds me of the time my girl friend and I were followed by someone in the woods. We were walking home to my home at BBG from the park. It was creepy and yeah I didnt walk after that. That was between 1973 -1974 I was a teenager.
Deletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/lyon-sisters-update_n_5837838.html?utm_hp_ref=cold-case
ReplyDeleteThe junk yard seems like a logical place to look for barrels. That the bodies were discovered decades apart. It makes sense that the barrel was not there in 1985. That it may have moved there. Due to the 2000 flooding seems a more logical explanation. I don't know the exact flood pattern for Bear Brook that year, however the flooding was extensive all over. If the barrel had a lid on it. When the flooding started. It makes sense that the water could have moved it. That much closer to the brook. Then as the water receded. The barrel got stuck on the tree, or rock in the photo. Find out where that barrel came from. Updates on this would be comforting. This is awful. ValerieRH07@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteI don't think flooding could account for the placement of the second barrel as it is so much higher than the area where the Brook is. I'd be glad to hear input from any Allenstown residents about the flooding theory though.
ReplyDeleteHas anybody considered that the unrelated child was a step child and may be related to the killer?
ReplyDeleteNot only considered it but think that it is the most likely explanation.
DeleteWe think that the most logical explanation for this crime is that a man with a child and a woman with two children got together and at some point something went horribly wrong and he killed them all. Perhaps he was a man with domestic violence and substance abuse issues. Perhaps she was a woman already on the move from a similar relationship in her past. The biggest challenge in this scenario is where is the man's ex (the mother of his child) and why hasn't she filed a missing person's report on their child? Or... maybe she has. Or, maybe she couldn't because he killed her too.
DeleteNear the top of this page there is a link with the text, "Woman in picture tentatively identified".
ReplyDeleteWhen I click on the link, I only get a message saying that my account does not authorize me to see the web page.
When was that link put up?
Thanks, I hadn't realized the link wasn't working. I just removed the story because people thought it was referencing the Allenstown case and it was actually about another cold case with NH ties. Story http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/12/06/chelmsford-police-seek-info-in-arizona-cold-case-murder/ The man connected to this case -Jack Kalhauser- once lived in NH and MA and I wondered if the case could be connected at all to the Allenstown case. However the woman in the picture has just been identified by family members as being Brenda Gerow out of Nashua NH. I think DNA tests are pending. So likely no connection to this case.
DeleteOh my god....Brenda Gerow is my sister...My mom tried looking for her.
DeleteI'm sorry.
DeleteYesterday there was a comment posted here that we chose to remove because it mentioned several living persons. We have reposted the comment but removed both names:
ReplyDeleteThe man who loaded trucks name was (NAME REMOVED) he was a man that worked carnivals. He was very nice looking but with acne he was bitten by a dog on his left cheek and had a nasty scar. He had shoulder length hair parted on the left. he was about 24/26 5foot ten/eleven hazel or dark blue eye's. He was a police officer? He had a badge. He was from Maryland. The barrels were from NY and carried sealant. Could be used for driveways or mobile home roofs. The family traveled with the carnival and from another country. They lived up above the store and they came to Allenstown NH because of the trucker and his helpers to work . The family originally stayed in a white camper that they lived in before the window blew out in a storm. There were three children and one woman. One of the middle children belonged to the trucker . The woman spoke broken English. One of the most mangled of the babies was a boy? ( I think)The Man who drove truck parked it beside the camper after the murders and The barrels showed up possibly when the mobile home was removed. The moving of the mobile home the burning of the store and the trucker are connected. (DIFFERENT NAME REMOVED). Start there.
The murder of the two eldest happened across the road from the store. The other two behind store.
Perhaps this person decided to come forward after your event last weekend?
DeleteI saw the post last night and had a hard time falling asleep.
I have been checking this case for quite awhile and hope this leads to their identity.
How would someone know how 'mangled' they were....
Beth
I do not mean Country, I mean State. They were from another state, Texas I believe. When I say carnivals I mean that is what I was told by the one with the nasty scar. I lived in the park in 1981.
DeleteI was the owner of the mobile home that was moved across the street behind the store after it was sold I walked almost daily to and from the store and hiked the many trails. I lived in Allenstown only for a short while. I am only trying to help.
Thanks for coming forward with information. Do you remember any of the females first names? Or how long they were in the area? Beth
DeleteIt seems likely to me that if there was involvement with traveling carnivals that the first places to contact about verifying this information and finding out more would be to contact the 3 carnival companies owned an located in New Hampshire. 2 of these have a LONG history in the state and perhaps would know about employees and employees' families that possibly lived or had a connection to Allentown. http://www.carnivalmidways.com/newhampshirecarnivals.html Maryland and New Hampshire carnivals could be checked as well. With the description above, it's my guess this would jog someone's memory of him. Here's to hoping this case is solved in 2015. ~Lisa
DeleteNew York and Maryland carnivals listed here, there's quite a few. http://www.carnivalmidways.com
Delete~Lisa
Lisa, thank you for the info.
DeleteTexas was mentioned, perhaps there was equipment or rides bought from a Texas carnival (again, there are a ton of them) and driven by trucker to New York/Maryland/New Hampshire? Along with the woman and girls. I imagine the carnival industry is pretty tight knit. ~Lisa
DeleteWe lived in Nashua in 1985. I remember officers coming to my daughter's school looking for kids who had stopped showing up. These comments reminded me that there was a traveling carnival that came through every year. They used to set up at Simoneau Plaza, I think for April vacation week but it might have been over the summer. I don't remember the name. They had a regular circuit through NH. I do remember that many of the vehicles had Florida or Texas plates. I don't know whether that's any help but I wanted to mention it just in case.
DeleteThe Simoneau plaza. Was that owned by people of the same name who lived in the park.?
DeleteHow do you know where the people were killed?
ReplyDeleteYou are good to come forward, many people have heavy hearts over this case. They should all rest in peace.
DeleteThe only way someone could know where they were killed is if they were there. Whoever put that comment on here must be involved if they know the locations, or they know what really happened and there trying to throw smoke in front of it. Or there crazy and trying to get attention. Those are the only possibilitys.
ReplyDeleteI think this person has been checking this blog for sometime and posting random hints for a while...
DeleteLook back over the posts from the past year or two. Most people go into detail when posting...but then there is a post "Eisenhower Park Long Island New York" and another "the drum may be from NY not the bodies". Then another random post "James robinson" with no other info..and finally the link posted Dec 1st. Read that article. I think they may know some details about what happened and for some reason were scared to come forward. Just my opinion.
Please do not call me crazy. You do not know me. I was 22 with a baby and after two failed attempts at 911 sending help was threatened. I Did try to help but the police never came. I do not know if the visiting children were those found. I just know of a family visiting the general store and staying in a camper. I know how they were killed because I heard the beating. I am trying to help. I almost stopped again because of rude comments. My husband and I owned the mobile home that was moved across the street to the store in 1981. I shall keep details to myself and talk only to Oak Hill Researchers from now on. Denise
DeleteDon't listen to rude comments. People are sometimes quick to make assumptions. I hope the info you have provided leads to the identities of these individuals.
DeleteThank you for coming forward with this information. God bless you.
ReplyDeleteWhat year did the store fire occur? And what was the cause of the fire? Has anyone contacted the owners of the store? Beth
ReplyDelete1983, cooking accident , and yes.
ReplyDeleteWhy were the barrels separated by a considerable distance?
ReplyDeleteThe one that was discovered in 1985 had the remains of the woman and the eldest child.
The second barrel, containing the remains of the two youngest children, wasn't discovered until 15 years later and then only during a search prompted by the finding of the first.
It would seem that this second barrel was much better hidden than the first.
I think that the first barrel was much heavier and more difficult to transport and the perpetrator was trying to move the heavier barrel toward the other one but
he gave up in exhaustion or perhaps he strained himself. Perhaps the disposal of the bodies
was hastily planned or not well thought out. Had he managed to get the
heavier barrel over to the lighter barrel, maybe they would remain undiscovered
to this day.
Was the line from the heavier barrel to the second one perpendicular to the road on which the
store was located?
Tim G.
Tim, given the circumstances and the time lapse, we think that the locations of the barrels are quite significant to this case. Unfortunately, the exact location of where the second barrel was found has never been released publicly so people who knew that area inside out (and who used it and how) have been prevented from weighing in intelligently on this case. From what we have been able to surmise, the second barrel was found up nearer to the store and closer to the property line dividing the store property from the trailer park. Thus, the line between the barrels was not perpendicular to the road but more diagonal. In addition, the land slopes significantly behind the store as you travel down to where the first barrel was found. If someone were trying to move that heavier barrel closer to the other one, they would have been rolling it uphill through the woods.
ReplyDeleteI recall the man on New Rye Rd. I heard at that time that he had stabbed himself a few times. A very strange way to commit suicide.
DeletePersonally after every article and piece of information I've read about this case my feeling is it takes a very specific type of person to be prone to uncontrollable outbursts of homicidal violence savage enough to murder a woman and three children under the age of 10 mostly likely via blunt force trauma to the head (many articles reference this was probably but not certainly the cause of death) If any of the above is true I have a hard time believing the person responsible for these brutal and senseless murders is still alive. It's been 29 years since evidence of these crimes first surfaced and very likely 30 something years since the crimes actually took place. I don't think it's possible that the man who did this simply moved forward in life and escaped detection, suspicion, getting caught, and moved on to a quiet law abiding life where he carved a spot in life out without letting anyone (that survived anyhow) ever get a peek at the sickness behind the veneer of the mask hiding away a monster. I've read and heard countless law enforcement officers say that if someone commits a crime, covers their tracks well, and never ever tells anyone else what they've done has an overwhelmingly good chance that they get away with it whether it be the robbing of a bank to the brutal murder of a woman and four children. I would have a much easier time believing that someone who haphazardly brutally murders four people is impetuous, violent, and reckless enough to take their own life. I do not think they have the self control, organization, resources and cunning manipulation it would take to matriculate quietly back into normal society with no one but himself the wiser. Perhaps the story about the unidentified man suspected of suicide found in or near New Rye in the same timeframe or the man who came to Allenstown for work with the company paying a $5000 fee maybe good leads for follow. Most trailer parks have somewhat transient nature with many tenants in and out fast enough for no one to notice. I still think that someone at or living there at the time of the crimes may have seen or witnessed something but its possible they don't know until someone asks or prompts them. I believe this case is solvable and I believe the line of questioning being pursued by Oakhill will eventually unlock the piece, the fragment, the ah-ha it's going to take to bring identity, justice, and closure to this case. Keep up the good work Oakhill..... I believe you will figure this one out.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment. We appreciate everyone who takes the time to think about this case and to post on here. We also have wondered about whether the perpetrator committed suicide. From following news reports of men who kill their families, it does seem like they often take their own lives. That is why we are collecting memories that people have of individuals who lived in the Allenstown area who suicided.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it is also chilling to read the stories of sociopaths who kill people and seem to show no outward signs of breaking down. These people often continue living in the same neighborhoods, sometimes on the very property where they have a body/bodies buried and if the proximity haunts them, they do not show it.
I was reminded of the NH case of Russell Bean who disappeared in 1978. Ten years later his body turns up buried in the yard of police chief Robert Chambers who had married Bean's wife Sylvia a year after Bean disappeared. Apparently Chamber's father Clifton offered a deathbed confession saying his son had killed Bean and so they were able to locate the body.
It seems that Clifton showed some remorse with his confession, even if he just wanted to clear his conscience before he died. But what about the others? Robert? Sylvia? Other friends and relatives? What sociopathic leanings allowed them to go about their lives like they did? And Chambers had just gone through the police academy when they dug up his yard and found his former friend. WTF? You can't even make up this stuff. And no one has ever been brought to trial for Bean's death.
Stories like that remind us that we can never judge evil by the yardstick of normal behavior.
Let me be clear that I am not accusing anyone of the murder of Russell Bean.
DeleteWow, this blog is incredibly informing. First, in my opinion, the 2nd barrel was there the entire time and the APD missed it. I was only 12 when the hunter found the 1st one, but the majority of the adults I was close to did not have much faith that the APD would solve it. I, too didn't hear about the 2nd barrel until recently. So incredibly sad.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, I have chills reading Denise's account- please don't stop sharing your story, I am not surprised APD didn't respond to your calls. If I remember correctly, back then we didn't have 24/7 PD.
Finally, thank you to Oak Hill and everyone on here who has contributed and researched, perhaps this haunting mystery will be solved. -Belinda
This is what Detective John Sonia said in a 2009 article about the kind of person who commits a crime like this: ... "The woman and the child found with her were killed by blunt force trauma to their heads, Sonia said. The medical examiner did not determine how the pair of children died, he said, but ruled they had been murdered. "This case was particularly heinous and brutal," he said. "It either shows some kind of relationship between the perpetrator and victims that's so close and personal where they were bludgeoned and put in barrels."
ReplyDeleteBut people who murder their entire families more often use methods like poisoning or shooting, he said. Crimes of intense violence are typically committed against a single victim, he said. "On the other hand, a serial perpetrator, a serial stalker with multiple victims, as we believe they're from one time. . . . That gives a different profile, a psychotic profile," he said.
I need to know why # 22 Edgewood drive is not on the map. Was #22 the trailer moved to the other side of the road? Is the junk yard you refer to where the store was located? I think # 22 was the trailer I owned. That would have made it the third on the right correct?
ReplyDeleteWe don't know why #22 is not listed on the map and assume it is the number that belongs on the trailer that has no number by the sandpit. We were given the map and this is how it came. We are not sure what year it is from except that it is prior to 1989.
ReplyDeleteHas DNA ever been tested on a Yohanna Cyr from Monteal ? She was 18 months when she disappeared and the caregiver had ties to Boston. 1978. Also, have you ever heard of a Robert Armes suspected of several deaths of girls in Ma. He resides in Nh.
ReplyDeleteNo to both questions but thank you for that information.
DeleteRobert Armes lived about 15 miles from me when he moved to Lincoln, NH. He was on My radar for Maura Murray as well as Molly Bish and Holly Perraien. He has since moved again but I have not been able to locate him.
DeleteTo see who has been tested and excluded as being these victims, one can go to this NAMUS page https://identifyus.org/en/cases/search and look at the 4 victims listed under "Merrimack County." Clicking on each victim will bring up the list of exclusions.
ReplyDeleteNobody knew their name...
ReplyDeleteThe more we try to free the chains;
the memory of those four remain.
The heartache and suffering that fills the air,
It happened suddenly no warning no clue...
In the midst of all of us, but no one knew.
Thrown away with the trash, our hearts collapse,
We lived in the neighborhood with a dangerous stranger-
or was he a good friend, guy next door ,
no one knew just who to trust-
How many times did he focus on us?
How could someone do what was done,
and four Angels waved goodbye to no one.
Talk about heartache and disaster
more than one can explain,
Four angels went off to heaven alone
and nobody knew their name.
Days into weeks, weeks from months to years,
We cry and hope and always we've prayed-
but nameless and alone those angels stayed.
We lived in a neighborhood with a dangerous stranger-
or was he a good friend, guy next door
no one knew just who to trust
or how many times he focused on us.
So much innocence was lost those days
along with hopes and dreams-all taken away,
washed away by a dangerous man.
We need to seek justice-and stay fu@#! mad.
Don't put us on hold or be afraid to be sad.
Those angels were among us and no one knew-
the pain and the suffering he put them through!
The pleading and begging for him to stop-
the little tiny angel tears that he forced to drop,
How could someone do what he done
and nobody came to help, not one.
Thank God for Heaven they are safe up there,
They hurt no more it's true.
That neighborhood that God damn stranger-
or was he a good friend, who knew..
no one knew just who to trust-
how many times did he focus on us?
How could someone do what was done,
and those four angels waved goodbye to no one
talk about heartache and disaster more than one can explain,
Four angels went off to heaven alone
and nobody knew their name
Denise
Although they did not deserve what happened to them they were not Angels just as the person who killed them was not necessarily evil.
DeleteIt certainly could be the case that someone suffering with mental illness committed a crime that later caused them anguish and heartbreak.
DeleteHow could three little children be considered to not be angels ? Nor the person/persons who took the lives of these babies in such a brutal manor not be evil ? To use the word, " WERE", states that you know something more than just what has been researched on this blog and the other sites. Please come forth, even if you do it anonymously. It just could be that you were told something that you need to pass on. It could be the smallest of details that give these children back their names. Please help these children. In God's name I pray," AMEN".
DeleteI don't know who did or didn't cooperate with police. What I do know is that only 2 families have been very selective in deciding what questions they will answer that I have asked. It's kind of puzzling because who wouldn't want to cooperate in giving the names back to 3 little dead girls?
ReplyDeleteTell Denise the reason why police did not respond was because they were parked at the store.
ReplyDeleteI did it
ReplyDelete