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Survey on the Identity of 'Bob Evans' 

Finding Lisa: a story of murders, mysteries, loss, and, incredibly, new life (May 13, 2017) 

Allenstown property searched April 26, 2017 (video)

We began this blog to tell the story of a baffling New Hampshire mystery in the hopes of identifying four homicide victims. Although recent months have revealed some astonishing layers to this story, its final chapters have yet to be written.



Who is this predator/killer?



Media on Bob Evans and Denise Beaudin

Musings on Evans

COMMENTS 





 

For most people in New Hampshire, the story began in the fall of 1985 in the little town of Allenstown, population 4000ish and best known for being home to Bear Brook State Park.

  
It was there, on the outskirts of the park, that brothers out hunting discovered the remains of a woman and a girl wrapped in plastic near a 55 gallon barrel.



The bodies were found on private property where a small camp store with an apartment above it had once operated. Bear Brook Store had burned in July of 1983 but the shell of the building remained, along with a mobile home, a camper, and various vehicles, barrels, and appliances scattered across the property.

(Foundation of Bear Brook Store in 2000.) The 1985 barrel was found down the logging path pictured, around the bend, and off to the left.


Allenstown Police Chief Norm Connor and his small department were assisted by the state police in investigating the homicides. As NH did not have its own Medical Examiner's office, the bodies were flown to Maine to be examined.



These sketches were released in the media and authorities covered a lot of ground hoping to identify what was assumed to be a mother and daughter.


However, investigative efforts did not lead to answers and eventually, the two bodies were released for burial. Chief Connor organized a graveside service in the parish cemetery that was presided over by the town's Catholic priest and a Methodist minister.


They were buried together in a steel casket so that they could be exhumed easily if someone came forward to claim their bodies. The owner of Epsom Memorials donated a granite stone for their grave and carved a rose and figures of the woman and child holding hands


Over the years, while investigators followed the leads that came in, Allenstown residents experienced a deep unease around the questions that lingered. Who were those girls? Who could have bludgeoned and dismembered and discarded them like trash

The hunter who spotted a foot sticking out of the plastic was so traumatized by his discovery that he said it took him ten years to go back into the woods.

 1974 photo shows the clearcutting that had been done on the property. Even by 1985, the forest was NOT heavily wooded around that well-traveled path.



Town officials wanted the Bear Brook Store property cleaned up and there was a Danger Notice attached to the 1997 tax record for map 407, Lot 023 that stated "Posted Unfit." The following year, an assessment card states "mobile home uninhabitable" and "vacant vandalized." It is chilling in hindsight to read the accompanying dump site report which lists: abandoned vehicle Chrysler 4 door sedan (rust), HTG appliance (illegible), enclosure falling down,  with wires and pipes, several  55 gallon drums some with trash in them, construction debris, old machines (axles, lawnmowers) strewn about, approx. 30 feet in from the road.




Fast forward fifteen years and 
State Police Sgt John Cody was assigned to the case. New Hampshire did not yet have a cold case unit and troopers were assigned old cases to work.

2015 Boston Globe photo of Cody

On May 9th of 2000 while examining the area, Cody located another barrel about 100 yards from where the first one was found, and discovered that it, too, contained human remains.


They were found to be the remains of two little girls. This led to the exhumation of the 1985 victims in order to have DNA comparisons done.



The testing found that the woman was related biologically to the oldest child (who was found in the barrel with her) and to the 2-3 yr old girl found in 2000. Authorities came to believe that the four victims were killed at or near the same time in the late 1970s to early 1980s.




The realization that one child was not related to the other three victims was puzzling and led to speculation about the whereabouts and well-being of her mother. Later, isotope testing done on the victims showed that the woman and the two girls related to her may have lived in the areas highlighted in green on the map below


The third girl may have lived in the red rectangles in the yellow areas

TONIA COWAN/GLOBE STAFF 


Over the years, it has been interesting to note the evolution of the facial reconstructions for the oldest victim.


 The latest composite (2015) was done by Joe Mullins, a forensic imaging specialist with the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.


The information was released for the first time that the two little girls had also been killed by blunt force trauma to their heads. The jolting images shown in May of 2016 of the caved-in skull of a little girl generated renewed speculation about what kind of individual was capable of this kind of violence against little children.

Media 1985-2016 (articles/videos) 

Little did we realize then that we were less than a year from getting our first glimpses into a back story that would bring together investigators on both coasts and yield a whole slew of new questions.





Depiction by artist Carl Koppelman of what the victims may have looked like ('Evans' daughter on the right)


2017 UPDATE:
In January of 2017, New Hampshire authorities held a press conference in Concord to release new information connecting the Allenstown cold case to several other cases in the country. WMUR broadcast the conference live and people tuned in across the country, tweeting highlights as they were released. Speaking at the press conference were Michael Kokoski (Supervisor in the NH Cold Case Unit), Jeffery Strelzin (Senior Assistant Attorney General Chief, Homicide Unit), and Ryan Grant (Detective Captain in the Manchester Police Department).


To assist in relating the story, the presenters  distributed an informative summary of events that recounts how these cases on the east and west coasts were finally connected through the story of the man once known in NH as Bob Evans. The trio also offered a succinct timeline to help the public navigate what is known about Evans as well as a handout that lists aliases/characteristics/unconfirmed travels etc that may help determine his true identity. Authorities released these pictures at the press conference as well as these maps of Evans' travels. They also made the Power Point of the presentation available.

~~~
 Oakhill Researchers attended the press conference along with former Bear Brook Gardens residents Paul Chevrette and Ron Sayles. It wasn't long before the anticipation of answers gave way to the grim realization that we wouldn't be writing the girls' names on any stones today, that the ending of this story is still some distance in the future. 



So... the man who killed the Allenstown victims is the man who was known in Manchester NH in the late 1970s, early 1980s as Robert Evans. It turns out that he is the father of the little girl in the barrel who is unrelated to the others. Her actual identity is still unknown and there is concern that her mother may be another victim of Evans.

Evans' daughter

 The identities of the woman and the other two children in the barrels are still unknown but DNA testing shows that Evans is not related to those children. Authorities now believe that it is likely they were killed prior to December of 1981 when Evans disappeared from Manchester. One possible clue to the identity of the woman in the barrel might lie in the information shared on the slide below during the press conference.



 The whereabouts of Denise Beaudin, the Manchester girlfriend of Evans who vanished in 1981 along with her baby daughter, is also unknown and authorities believe she was killed by Evans as well. And although he killed his own daughter, he spared the life of Denise's daughter Dawn, changing her name to Lisa and later giving her away to strangers. 

The Lisa Project 

More on how Lisa was identified 
(starting at the line "Max introduced Barbara Rae-Venter, J.D., Ph.D...."


Lisa has recently been reunited with her relatives in Manchester NH. Her survival is a bright spot to the families in Allenstown who have lived with the sorrow of this case for decades and they pray she finds answers about her mother.

Denise Beaudin in 1976 Goffstown High School graduation photo

Evans was arrested in California in 2002 for the murder of his partner, Eunsoon Jun. He was living under one of the many aliases that he used throughout his life. Jun's bludgeoned and partially dismembered body was found under a pile of cat litter in the home he continued living in after he killed her. 

Eunsoon Jun
 
Bob Evans died of natural causes in High Desert Prison in California in 2010. He left many mysteries in his wake, perhaps none more puzzling than that of his own identity. Who is this man who behaved so savagely to the women and children in his life? Where did he come from?  How many other victims did he leave scattered across the continent?


After the press conference, Scott and Ronda headed to the Manchester Library. More questions, more research. 





469 comments:

  1. Do the police have any ideas about who may have done this?

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  2. Don't know what the police have on this case. Our goal is just to get information about the family out to the public in the hope that someone can identify them.

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    1. This sounds like a guy name Scott Jakes. He lived on hospital ave near massabesic st. His spouse looks just like one of the pictures. Her name was Gail if I think about it. They had some kids and left the area during the night.

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    2. I'm not even finding a couple with those names who lived in NH

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    3. He said he also lived in Laredo Texas. They wern't here that long as I think of it. They left at night. They also bothbhad southern acsent.

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  3. I heared the NHSP did look at the John Edward Robinson for this case but he was rule out

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  4. Thanks for posting...I can see why they looked at him- all those women he killed and stashed in barrels. I couldn't find any connection to NH for him. They must have looked at Edward Mayrand, Daniel Vandebogart, Steven Roy, Lovie Lee Riddle, Victor Wonyetye, and William Dean Christensen too.

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  5. have you guys sent any info to the NH Cold cases unit??

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  6. NH Cold Case Unit is aware of this blog, but any info we receive we would try to verify first.

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  7. Here something I did over at the unsolved mysteries.wiki page
    any info you can add is welcomed


    http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Bear_Brook_Remains

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  8. Outlaw, have you ever had the chance to visit the property where they were found?

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  9. No,I had talk to someone who live down the road for where they would found. I did come across a good tip that I sent a long to the NH cold case unit

    BTW
    can you add info to the US wiki about page just to give most the info that we can on this case

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  10. How long ago did you send the tip and do you know if they ever followed up on it?

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  11. couple of mth ago and they hear of the person i was talking about

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  12. Get to think why this case was never profile on AMW

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  13. So if that is true it open this case up as the work of a serial killer

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  14. Well, according to the May 31, 1987 Boston Globe article posted on this blog, "the police have:
    - Pursued and dismissed theories that the murders were committed by a serial killer or organized crime member..."

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  15. I think it´s possible that there was a serial killer. But why is there no one who is missing this persons? No parents? No sisters? No friends?
    There must be at least 2 fathers and 2 mothers for the children. Where are they?
    What could be the explanation???
    Unbelievable...

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  16. This case never got any media to cover it

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  17. I know some people that lived in the park in 2000 and they had never heard about the 2nd set of bodies being found. How the hell is that possible and why weren't they all found at the same time? I can only think of 2 possible reasons. 1. The police did a poor investigation and failed to find the other bodies in a barrel 100 yards away. Or 2. The 2nd set of bodies were dumped at a later time. Even if the police are trying to cover something up someone out there has to know something. This is a women and 3 kids horribly murdered and dumped like trash in the woods.

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  18. What is the land use for whereb the does would found and did the SP ever talk to the land owner or there friends???

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  19. Very mysterious! Possibly the environment of an extendet family? A closed millieu? Maybe a religous cult or something like that?

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  20. Could the killer be a trucker seeing that in was the area of Store and that why they have not id them

    I found one case maybe they should look into and that the case of Janice Pockett of Tolland, Connecticut who when missing in 1973.her age and looks match up to one of the doe in this case

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pockett_janice.html

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  21. Nikodemus, we wanted to address your earlier comment about the serial killer possibility. In finding out that the middle child is not biologically related to the other victims, it did make us wonder if this was more along the lines of some kind of serial killing activity where the killer used this as a dumping ground for 2 crimes of unconnected victims. However, as you pointed out, there have to be at least two sets of parents to these children and they would have come forward if their child was taken by a stranger or whatever. We are thinking more along the lines of what you said in your last comment: some kind of extended family situation (i.e. someone with 3 children gets together with someone with 1 child and ends up killing all 4 children) or something. We have looked at religious cults in New England at that time too. As you said,it seems that there must have been some kind of out of the ordinary milieu (military family, incest, cult, trucker's family, carnival folks, migrant workers,etc)to account for the lack of a community outcry when these girls disappeared. Some story must have been woven for anyone who did ask: she left me and took the kids, the state took the kids, etc. And, is there another victim out there somewhere- the mother of some of them?

    Outlaw, a truck or camper/RV or some vehicle like that would certainly make it easier to transport 4 dead people. And since they weren't brought in in the barrels, they had to be concealed somehow prior to being dumped in those barrels. A Concord Monitor article (Nov 13, 1985) that we recently added to the blog has an interesting thought: “Nearly all of the residents of the mobile home park near where the bodies were found were interviewed by police and asked if they had noticed any suspicious activity in the area since this summer. Though autopsy reports indicate that the victims were killed at least a year ago, officials would not comment on whether the bodies had been dumped in the Allenstown woods more recently.” If what this reporter is suggesting is correct, the bodies were stored somewhere else prior to being dumped there. Where? Under a trailer or in a shed or freezer or something? And Outlaw, we also have wondered about Janice Pockett (and others such as Marjorie Christina Luna) as being the oldest victim but wouldn’t know how to account for the fact that two of the other victims are related to her, so who would they be?

    We appreciate all of the ideas… On May 9th, it will be 12 years since the little girls were found.

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    1. Maybe they were kidnapped and 1 kid was the kidnapper child from raping the victim. The 2 older we're related, possibly cousins from Canada. The unrelated kid was possibly another random kidnap victim. Check Canada missing from prior 10 years before the bodies were found.

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    2. That's what I was thinking. I stumbled across this story on the Web today. My first instinct was that the adult could have been abducted as a child or something, years before and impregnated, which is maybe why noone is looking for an adult with children, as she might have been a missing child. Maybe this is the works of a serial child abductor, like the recent cases in the news. I'd check old cold cases for a missing child/teen, and see if her DNA matches up. I'd also look into group homes and foster parents. They are known for keeping poor records. Has their DNA been tested against criminals in prison? Maybe one of the men that fathered them is in prison or has a relative that is. And lastly, I briefly thought they might be new to the country from Eastern Europe. May God bless them, may we find their names soon, and bring those responsible to justice.

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    3. During this timeframe, a company in Concord was paying up to $5,000 for men with children to move to NH AND housing for a month as long as there were children with him. My family as well as an extended family member came from new York state. My dad just had to do a phone interview and we moved a week later when the money was wired. NH precision metal? Something like that? Was a tiny ad in newspapers nationwide, the whole motel next to the thirty pines motel was full of us, some from as far as California. There were two more motels and i think three hotels utilized by this company. Some people were let go within a week after the guaranteed first month. My father had become good friends with one of these guys (Ross, all i remember)who sent his family home and hung himself the same week. Maybe there is records of this company's migrant workers? I can get more accurate information by my mother but the timeframe struck me. There were allot of these guys that gave up everything, moved states away on a good rush manufacturing movement and lost it all in this month

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    4. I just saw your comment, Lisa. I would be very interested to know more about this. Can your mother provide any more details?

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    5. That might have been Precision Technology in Concord, my husband worked for them around 2002, he said they hired a lot of ex-cons and immigrants and temp workers. They went out of business after the owner was embezzling money and not paying anybody, and the whole place had to be auctioned off.

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    6. Precision was on Route 106 in Pembroke..... Is this the place you mean? If so its REALLY close and nearly a straight shot to the area the bodies were found in. Their address was 39 Sheep Davis Road Pembroke, NH 03275

      MapQuest says about 10 miles and literally one turn to get to the road... Not a far stretch....

      It wasn't a machine shop but lots of machinery- they did mailings and printing.....

      I wish LIsa would come back and update with more info about this company as this could be significant.

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    7. Be very interesting to know IF those barrels had any metal filings in them. Were any metal filings found on the bodies.? Or any printing type inks or dies.

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  22. Looking at the other NH Does cases the state has 8 cases of unknown john and janes doe case
    This one is 4 of the cases the other one ones
    Unidentified Male found in Salem in 1969 and last I hear the FBI was looking at it as the part of the Highway killers Div
    Unidentified Female found in 1971 in Bedford off where the highway is now last I heared it was getting look at that she was killed by Rodney Alcala
    A woman and her boyfriend found dead in Franconia Forest in 2004 police believed they both planned their deaths(the man was id the woman was not)
    Toe form an unknown john doe found at Sheila Labarre's house inside a firepit

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  23. Going back to Nicodemus's comment about the victims coming from a closed milieu of some kind: what about a connection to one of NH's biker gangs like the Die Hard Motorcycle Club, for example? Or to one of the area's religious groups like Green Pastures in Epping (aka The Emissaries of Divine Light)? And lastly, does anyone know what happened to Denise Daneault who disappeared from Manchester NH in 1980? Any possibility one of the local drug lords left her in the woods in Allenstown?

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    1. POSSIBLE.....

      http://www.mocavo.com/Denise-Daneault-1954-1980-Social-Security-Death-Index/15790536862005882032

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    2. That's her but she has never been found. Someone must have been able to declare her officially dead. Very curious.

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  24. This was personal and the victims new their killer. I have a hard time believing a Motorcycle Club/Gang could do this. I could see them killing a man or a woman but not 3 Kids. Whoever did this has probably killed others, you don't just wake up one day and decide to kill 4 people. Look at how he disposed of the first two bodies. He didn't bury them, he wanted them to be found. Then he waits a few years and leaves the second set of bodies only 250 feet from where the others were found. He is making a statement like, look I got away with it once and now I'm going to do it again. He is an arrogant bastard and therefor has told others about this and other crimes he has committed. Someday soon someone he told is going to get tired of being an innocent victim and come forward.

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  25. Since the woman was related to the children, but not their mother...given her age - I would say perhaps their aunt....who may have been caring for them. Police need to check for a young woman dying and leaving three young girls behind....this would not have been an older sister, so I am thinking aunt...perhaps the woman's sister took them in after she died. The obituaries are out there...it is a time consuming task to take on, but you might get lucky.

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    1. Having grown up very close to this area(since 1976 or so)....and knowing that myself, my sister, and many of the area children would run through this patch of woods to get to the small store...probably only a few hundred yards from where the barrels were found is particularly chilling. Often times I look for updates on this case, hoping something would pop up in my memory. First, these were school aged children...could there be leads there? Second...as I read the believed physical description of the children...immediately one family comes to mind. I do not recall the last name...but I recall a very large family residing in the mobile home park...they were several households...the grandfather always set off my pervert alarm....I also recall that within a 2-3 year period there was a mass exodus of these households...occurring between, I believe, 1985 and 1988. Many of the young girls in this gaggle of families had blonde and/or strawberry blonde hair.

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    2. I think I know the family group you are referring to. I would be interested in speaking with you further. Can you email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com?

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    3. Sounds like this could be a credible lead...probably that grandfather did something and all the members of his household were too terrified to say anything. Maybe the woman was going to leave and take the kids and he killed her before she could? Maybe killed them all and when other family members asked, he said, "I don't know where she is... She took the kids and left me!"...Back then, it could have been plausible to disappear and none of the family would have been interested or able to locate them. Now with cell phones, social web networks, etc it's harder to disappear, maybe?

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    4. Yes I would be interested in the name as well....Sounds like a good thing to look into for sure.

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    5. And could explain the non related one as well. IF the family was large and very convoluted it could be from another source just not blood relation. just a thought.

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  26. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guthrie_leslie.html

    Leslie and her daughter went missing in 1977

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  27. Sad that we have 4 murder victims and the state of NH won't familial DNA test them due to scumbags "rights". When are we ever going to get our priorities straight in this country??

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  28. I thought of Leslie's case from Katanoh, NY as well. We know LE doesn't often check beyond their own back yard, especially back in the 1980's.
    We just had a young woman from MD named Cynthia Gastelle identified this summer after 32 years. Cynthia was reported missing from Takoma Park, MD in April 1980, but she was found 2 year later just over the state line in Va. Yet - it STILL took 30+ years to tie her to the Va Jane Doe case. And even then, it was a websleuther who brought her case to the attention of authorities so a DNA match could be made with Cynthia's family. So let's give credit where credit is due.
    And by the way, as far as Manuel Gehring's kids in the article above, the real hero of that story was a local woman named Stephanie Dietrich, a grocery clerk from Akron, Ohio, NOT LE. Stephanie, along with her dog, was the one who found the shallow graves of Philip & Sarah Gehring. They were murdered & buried by their father along the Ohio turnpike before hanging himself in a CA jail when caught. Stephanie went looking for those kids on her own, after reading about the kids abductions in 2003. Again, let's give credit where credit is due.
    With that being said, I hope to God someone makes a match with these 4 victims. They deserve justice and their killer needs to be taken off the streets.

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  29. New Hampshire police DID investigate leads as to the identity of this family far beyond the boundaries of New Hampshire and even the United States and continue to do so to this day. The bottom line is that states have limited funding as to how they can allocate their resources in investigating these cases. It's too bad it comes down to money, but that's the grim reality.

    On another note: If the woman is not the mother of the two children w/her similar DNA, as the DNA testing suggests, then the Guthrie family is ruled out.

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  30. Could this case be ties to the Ct valley killing

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  31. And what means "original sketch"?

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  32. Nikodemus, the woman being excluded as the mother of the children and the middle child being excluded as being a relative to the other victims, was a misinterpretation or miscommunication. Apparently, those exclusions cannot be made. As to the sketches, they appeared in the news after the first 2 bodies were found. We do not yet have a date/source for where they appeared.

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  33. Anyone know when Vaclav Plch came to the US from the Czech Republic? He killed Mary Stetson in Manchester NH in 1999.

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    1. Obviously a late reply and I'm not sure when he emigrated but ... as a close friend of Stetson's family and therefore, aware of most of the specifics of her case, I'd say a link was unlikely. Plch was disorganized, careless, and most likely a drunk. The Allenstown killer seems disturbingly meticulous and experienced.

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    2. Plch didnt come to manchester until the early 80's. He was my neighbor. We called him William. He dated Vicky Lamos right before the conviction of the murder Mary Stetson.

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    3. Do you know where he was prior to coming to Manchester?

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    4. Im not sure. I think russia. He could barely speak english when I first met him. Vicky's brother Steve might know. He lives way up north..It was 1986 or 87 when I met william.

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  34. I think I found one guy to look at in this case

    NY/Mass serial killer Lewis Lent because he was active around this time and he main target would kids .

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  35. http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/8ufok.html

    Could this be the woman's other daughter?

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    1. Your link doesn't work. Who was the child you were referring to?

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    2. The case the person posted is the case of sharon marshall a case I know something about. Her case started back in 1994 when her son was kidnaped by his so called dad Franklin Delano Floyd(DNA would rule him out)and the son Michael Anthony Hughes was never seen again. When the police started to look at Franklin Delano Floyd's past who was married to sharon marshall it turn out sharon marshall. it turn out Franklin Delano Floyd show up with a little girl one day and he say she was his daughther but dna rule that out too.it turn out that little girl was sharon marshall and police think Franklin Delano Floyd kidnaped her when she was a little girl but no one who she is.I have read Franklin Delano Floyd did live in ct back in the 70's for a little bit.

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    3. I don't know, showing off his power to Sharon's friends even as they knew her as his victim...I truly believe if he tried to have another "family" people would have remembered him in particular in re with a young woman and three young girls, especially after Sharon's story came to light.

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  36. good job with this website. keep up the good work. it's nice that you care about these girls and the woman. what a sad story. i hope this can be solved soon thanks to new awareness and new technology.

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  37. 23andme has a relative finder, so I would hope that the victims would be eventually identified by identifying their cousins or aunts and uncles or great grandparents. I just don't know if the DNA is usable for that kind of testing.

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  38. Maybe the woman was kidnapped as a teen and held for a few years giving birth to a couple of kids such as what happened in Detroit to Amanda Berry. The other child could have been from another girl he abducted and impregnated. Has the police looked to see if the woman could be Laureen Rahn or Rachael Garden?

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  39. Any chance the woman could have been abducted at a young age, and kept as a sex slave....giving birth to the children while in captivity (much like the recent "Cleveland" case). What would the woman have looked like at 4-5 years old....8-10.....etc?

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  40. I agree with the previous 2 comments as a possible theory. I would take the age range of the woman, subtract the age of the oldest child plus one, and then sift thru missing persons reports in that time frame target. Perhaps the DNA could be cross checked with relatives of missing single females, profiled offenders, or even suicides of sketchy outliers. With all the variables there would still be a massive set of possibilities, but I imagine computer modeling could narrow things down a good bit.
    If this were the scenario, the perp may well have had estranged family members too. Maybe the story of the strange doings of the Amanda Berry guy as told by his daughter will trigger memories of someone in that late 70s to early 80s time frame.

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  41. Has the medical examiner run an isotopic analysis on any of their teeth? Especially on the kids to know where they were probably born? Isotopic analysis will indicate the area of the nation or the part of the world each victim was in when their teeth erupted because it marks the spot from which they were drinking groundwater. Pretty detailed charts have been created for the US by anthropologists to investigate migration patterns of ancient peoples (archaeology/anthro minor here:)

    Not sure if something like that has ever been used for a criminal investigation, but I don't see why not. I think it would work especially well in this case since the woman's daughter and other related girl were so young. It would really narrow down the geographic areas they would have been exposed to at the times critical to dentin formation, so the cops would know where they were at pretty specific times (i.e, when the daughter was 18 to 36 mos, etc). Would definitely make searching birth, school, and police records a lot easier. A potassium-argon test could also give them a little smaller window on how long ago they were killed (not sure I saw any info in the news reports about how long investigators think they had been in the barrels).

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    1. Edit: looked at http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pockett_janice.html
      per outlaw's suggestion that janice pockett's adult composite looks a lot like the adult composite here - totally right!! her teeth, mandible, nose and brow ridge in her childhood photos are also pretty close to the oldest kid here. no idea based on the story on the website how could be related to the others, but wow!

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    2. Edit #2: Just read (so much info on this great site!) that they did iso tests on the adult's hair, but no mention of the kids. They do describe what their hair looked like, so unless there was only a few strands, why wasn't it tested too? The 2 youngest might still have had hair from close to when they were born, giving the same info I detailed in my above post. I just assumed most of the hair was gone (that's what I get for writing before I read everything:)

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  42. Hello, I look a lot for jane does and compare them to missing people reports. I was wondering if it was considered that maybe the older woman was taken and held for a few years before being murdered? On charlieproject.org there is a young woman who went missing in 1970...she looks like the sketch...mostly in the cheekbones and lips. Her name is Denise Marie Sheehy....I just figured I would throw it out there considering you never know how these things can turn out!

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  43. Someone knows and its just a matter of time.The question is will the killer turn him/herself in, or will someone who knows who did it be the first to speak

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  44. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/white_lisa.html

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    1. Her age progression does resemble the composite of the Allenstown woman

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    2. I also kind of wondered about another missing girl from Tolland, last name Speckler as well as White. I don't remember the details/names but there is also a case of a girl near allentown who disappeared late 70's I think, whose remains were found in an old derelict car in some woods somewhere. I believe cause of death was given as blunt force back of skull----I have wondered about the similarity of way they were all killed and disposed in woods in metal. Maybe a longshot---something about it "pings" on my radar

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    3. 11 yr old Debra Horn who disappeared from Allenstown in Jan 1969, found deceased several months later in a car in Sandown, NH. Unsolved.

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  45. Reading about the (horrifying) case of the missing women recently rescued/found in Ohio, and similar abduction cases where a young person has been kidnapped and held captive for a lengthy period of time, even giving birth in that time---- I wonder if the unidentified adult female could be a missing child herself from a much earlier date. The condition of the teeth makes one wonder about adequate nutrition for a lengthy period of time as well as lack of dental care

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    1. Thats exactly what I was thinking.

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  46. Could DNA be reviewed for genealogy and associated surnames? Also the unrelated child may be woman's step daughter perhaps child of perpetrator. If so, there could be old report of parental abduction or miss ing child report last seen with father, etc.

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  47. Have they reach out to the FBI's behavioral analysis unit???

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  48. I agree with most of the comments here. Please the police need to consider that she may have been a missing child or teen, herself, and held hostage and impregnated by a serial child abductor. Look at recent cases like the cases with Amanda Berry and Dugard. They need to check old cold cases for a missing child or teen. Maybe her family was not looking for a woman with children. They should check the DNA against men in prison or with records, as the men who fathered them could be in prison or have relatives who are. Based on the condition of the children's teeth, I do not think they were out in public much. Also check group homes and foster parents. I also thought of immigrants from Eastern Europe. But I really think it was a case where she was held against her will, maybe from a young age. God be with them, may their killer or killers be caught and brought to justice, soon.

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    1. Yes, I was thinking the same thing myself ...the older women/ mother was probably a kidnapping victim from the 70's and gave birth to two of the children while being held captive ...and the other child may be from another kidnapped girl ...were all the children fathered by the same man? ...the investors really need to look into older missing girls and teens from the 70's to find the identity of the older women ...nobody is looking for a family because nobody even knew that they existed ...concentrate on the older women who was kidnapped as a child/ teen in the 70's as this makes the most sense ...and there were others ...who gave birth to the middle child? ...someone kidnapped and kept them for years and fathered these children ...maybe killing them when the older woman tried to escape with these children? Or maybe he wanted to start over and get another younger victim? ...please look into this... there are elderly parents out there who's daughter was kidnapped in the 70's... she was alive for years and her abductor fathered her children!

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  49. Eisenhower Park Long Island New York

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  50. The drum may be from NY not the Bodies

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  51. Can you give us any more information about your Long Island comment? What makes you say the drum may have been from NY? Do you have any thoughts about where the victims were from? Feel free to email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com

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  52. Thank you to all of the people who have contacted us suggesting that the Allenstown victims could be Mary Stuart and her children from Honeydew, CA. Although NAMUS appears not to have updated their database to show them as exclusions, DNA testing has ruled out the Stuarts.

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  53. I was reminded of the Allenstown case when I read about the Poughkeepsie case.

    There are similarities. Could they possibly be related?

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  54. A horrifying and perplexing case. Really hope it can be solved one day. Someone has gotten away for this for far too long-and we can only hope that they haven't killed again since.

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  55. Did you see that NH police may have gotten a break in the case of missing girl Rachael Garden?

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  56. Yes, I saw that. Spring of 1980 was a bad time in NH for missing young women: Rachael Garden (March), Laureen Rahn (April), and Denise Daneault (June).

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    1. They should look at a guy already in prison for these. His name was Jack. He was a tall guy from merrimack. He was convicted of rape. He raped a few women that never came forward. He is the guy they need to check out.

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    2. Can you provide any more information about Jack? I would like to look into this but could use a little more info about him.

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    3. Are you referring to Jack Z Higgins?

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    4. That could be it. He was from merrimac and was convicted for rape. He is very tall. Like 6'6" maybe. When those girls started turning up missing, he had raped a few other women that didnt come forward. He knew those women and they were easy targets for him. The ones that died were street walkers at that time. When we heard he got charged we all thought he killed them. He was a strange person when he drank. I can't think of anhthing else. When his harley got hit by a truck he started crying. We didn't understand why he did that n front of like 25 people. That happened on valley st. Seems strange that once he was charged. The deaths also stopped.

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    5. Yes. I think that is his last name.

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  57. Here is a few readings I get from this case: The boyfriend or very recent ex-boyfriend of the woman did this to the family. He worked in a factory or near a river (barges). He may have drove a light colored truck with a blue tarp in the back. He worked away from the area. The family had recently moved before the murder. The child not directly related is cousin or a very close family friend. The oldest woman's mother had recently died. The family lived above a garage or on a rented property. I feel the case definitely happened early 80s not late 70s.

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    1. I got chills reading this. I replied with my gut on an above comment before seeing yours and you nailed it

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    2. You are talking about the yearn factory by sun cook river. That runsaid all the way down to the bow power plant. And by ferry street

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  58. Just found your site from the CNN article. I think it's great that you setup this blog to collect tips. I hope one day there will be some resolution to the case.

    I also agree with Anonymous June 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM - that's what I was thinking as well and would explain why two of the children might be linked to the woman genetically and why the other girl looks similar to the other girls as they might all have the same father.

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  59. Someone should look at John Edward Robinson and see if he could have been in the area at the time. He is already in prison - a convicted serial killer. But the m.o. Is similar.

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  60. This case is not done by a serial killer. Also, it can be assumed that the four all knew each other and perhaps lived close by the park of which their bodies were found. Seeing that they each had poor nutrition then that would mean little money. The killer, then, possible had little or no income. Why would the killer travel miles away with no money. Also, why would the killer risk of being seen with 50 gallon barrels and traveling a far distance?

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  61. In light of more recent events in the news, has the possibility been investigated that the oldest victim was kidnapped as a child? Perhaps the two girls are her daughters (and the third, maybe the child of a second kidnapping victim). In this case, the existence of the 3 younger victims would be entirely unknown (which is why there was no missing persons report).

    I just noticed that an earlier commenter made a similar suggestion. Has this theory been investigated?

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  62. I know that this possibility has been explored. How thoroughly, I do not know.

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  63. So the teenager missing from North Conway - Abigail Hernandez - what's up with all that? The police say they don't suspect foul play but the FBI are up there and are offering a $20,000 award??

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  64. Are you referring to John Edward Robinson- the serial killer others have mentioned on here? Or does your comment refer to something else?

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  65. If this was the work of any serial killer someone who would be at the top of list would be Lewis LEnt. The reason because he was active around the same time and his mo matched up in this case

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  66. Have you considered a man named Robert Steffen, they say he died in prison for molesting his grandchildren and threatened to bury them with the other bodies if they told? He happened to live on Edgewood Dr. that runs parallel to the trail that the bodies were found off of.

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  67. Over the past two years, we have been researching the mobile home park of 1977-1985 and contacting as many of the former residents as possible. We are interested in talking to anyone who lived in the park during those years. Bob Steffen (also known as Bob Holmes, Bob Stone, Joseph Howard) is a name we have come across. If anyone has an idea about who the victims are or how they might have been connected to anyone who lived in that area, we would like to speak further with you. You can email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com or call 207-841-2526.

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    1. For clarification, not implying that Steffen or anyone who lived there had anything to do with this- just curious about why he used all those names.

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  68. So yeah.....I think this is an incest case where dad/grandpa/uncle killed everyone involved. But has anyone checked out dentists/orthodontists in the area? Grown woman had "extensive dental work" and all the kids had apparently bad teeth. So...without being judgmental.....either there was incest, bad tooth care, or good tooth care which would imply some sort of dentist.

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  69. Have LE put the dna through the c.o.d.i.s. dna data system? If the killer was a relative, they may be incarcerated for something else..just my thoughts..
    RIP little ones

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  70. I see a lot of similarities in facial features between Cynthia Dawn Constantine (missing 07-11-69 age 15 in NY) and the composite of the adult female. She fits the age range too. I would appreciate thoughts on this comparison. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/constantine_cynthia.html

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  71. I will pass along Cynthia's name. Per NAMUS, she has DNA listed in the database so if she hasn't already been compared to the Allenstown woman, it would be worth doing. Thank you for taking the time to mention this.

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  72. Have they attempted to match the oldest victims DNA with Lisa Joy White?

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    1. I am not sure but will pass the suggestion along. White is on our short list of girls to consider as well.

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  73. These deaths happened very close to September 10 1969 plus or minor a year. Your first step in solving them will be in adjusting your timeline. I am witness to this event, but I was very young and am unsure about weather it matters to come forward after 45 years.

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    1. Thank you for your post. We'd like a chance to hear your memories as 1969 is a lot earlier than we had been considering. Even if the person who did this has died, it does matter. Do you know who the woman and children were and is there a reason that September 10th sticks in your mind? You could email us at oakhillresearch@gmail.com or even anonymously drop a letter in the mail: Ronda Randall, 54 Middle Bay Rd, Brunswick ME 04011.

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    2. I chose September 10 only because I remember that the older kids had gone back to school. I was not in first grade yet. I am 52 today. At some point I will send you my recollection of events. I do not know the woman and children. I believe they were what was then called qypsis ??? I believe they were staying at local churches and shelters and hustling work in the local area.

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  74. Did the event you witnessed happen in Allenstown or somewhere else?

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  75. A man named Freddy Comtois recently died in the NH State Prison. I have been told that he once lived in the Bear Brook Gardens Mobile Home Park with a girlfriend. I have been unable to determine his girlfriend's name. If you know her name, could you email it to me at oakhillresearch@gmail.com? Thanks.

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    1. And he was in jail for murder....hmmmmm. What if the Mitchell guy He killed knew something.?
      Just a thought.

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  76. I have been following your blog for updates and saw the above comments by the anonymous poster. If they are correct about these murders it would make sense as to why they were not reported as missing. The gypsy community has very little trust in the police. But that does not mean they were not loved and missed. I hope that individual tells all they know.
    What would not match up with their story would be that the oldest victim had 'extensive dental work'. Possible, but atypical of that population during that time period.

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  77. The gypsy angle is an intriguing one. Thanks for all your work in keeping this case alive.

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    1. We used the word "gypsies" because that is the word used by the person who posted on here in June identifying the victims as such. We realize that the word is often used to describe many groups of Travelers- the Rom, the Irish Travelers, the Polish and Hungarian gypsies, the "Terrible Williamsons," etc. Many of these groups passed through NH from the south on their way into Canada, peddling goods and doing blacktop work etc and staying at campgrounds and trailer parks. One 2013 news article out of Cape Girardeau, MO (http://www.kltv.com/story/23094943/new-lead-in-48-year-old-missing-toddler-case) mentions a possible connection between the 1965 disappearance of Elizabeth Ann Gill ("Beth") and some travelers who passed through Missouri. We would like to hear from anyone with information/memories of Travelers passing through NH in the 1960s -1980s. Thanks.

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  78. Based on forensic data suggesting that the victims were killed in the early to mid 1980s, it is not likely that the person who posted of witnessing an event in 1969 could be referring to this case.

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  79. Hello, I often wonder about and check in about his awful case, hoping that it's been solved.I Know DNA has been done to determine if this woman and the children were related but has DNA been done to tell us what their genetic ancestry and what ethnicity and regions from around the world their ancestors came from? Like the DNA tests on Ancestry and Nat Geo? Just curious if this has been done as it may help provide more information that might lead to other clues. Thank you for keeping this blog going! Lisa

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    1. Lisa, we also had wondered about this avenue for possible identification. A couple of years ago we contacted Ancestry.com about this. Apparently, those programs only categorize DNA from saliva samples and are not compatible with the way DNA is collected from bodies. I also communicated with Dr. Blaine Bettinger (a "genetic genealogist") about this. I don't pretend to understand the science behind the way that DNA is sequenced but apparently it's not an option here. I need to pursue this further though.

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    2. Bettinger told me about the public mitochondrial database mitosearch.org. He also told me about the Y DNA database. I think both of these databases are run by Family Tree DNA: http://www.familytreedna.com/ I wish I had a better understanding of why the victim's DNA cannot be entered into these databases. I will inquire further.

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    3. The FBI has a very informative site about this topic: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

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    4. Thank you! I will keep hoping this crime is solved soon. It's so hard to believe someone/s could murder and throw away 4 people like trash, especially children. It's difficult to think that no one, family, friend or neighbor isn't missing or wondering about them. Again, thank you for not forgetting this mother and children. Regards, Lisa

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  80. Aren't there tests that can be conducted on teeth and bones that can provide clues as to an individual's geographic origins (from minerals they have absorbed from water, etc.)?

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    1. Cindy, isotope testing was done to try to determine where in the country they had lived but apparently the results were either not deemed to be accurate or so broad that a helpful geographic location could not be isolated.

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    2. Thank you for this information. I had been wondering about this type of testing.

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  81. I live in the park during the years 77-87. I was aged 5-15. I remember when the first two bodies were found. It was disturbing, my parents were worried that it happened in our quiet little park. My grandparents were the park managers at the time. They had several adult children with children who lived in the park as well. We are the Loucks family. The adults and my grandparents were all contacted at the time.

    For many years my grandparents spent many colder days in their Florida home. They were golfers and enjoyed the Florida sunshine. When they decided to retire and move permanently to Florida, we moved too. Some of our family stayed north and some relocated. All are living except for my grandfather, who died approximately 2 years ago. Feel free to contact me privately and I'll provide any information that you deem helpful.

    Best, Amy Loucks Hopkins
    ahopi@msn.com

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    1. Amy, I wonder if we know each other. I lived in the second trailer near the house , the one that burned down.

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  82. Amy, thank you for contacting us! I sent you an email with a couple questions we have for your family. We are working on contacting every family who lived there between 1977 and 1985. What has been most surprising is that almost no one heard that the little girls were found in 2000. I guess it was barely publicized and families were never re-contacted.

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  83. Has anyone thought of scanning the area for other bodies? Buried perhaps? Two sets of bodies were found in the same area at different times in the same type of drum says it's obviously the same killer. Was the second drum there the whole time and just missed by investigators in 1985 or was it brought at a later time? If they were killed at the same time and brought there at the same time why would the killer drag the second barrel 250 yards away? Why wouldn't he/she just leave the two barrels side by side? He/she obviously had no concern of hiding them very well. Is it possible this killer used this property before and was more careful in hiding the bodies of other victims at earlier dates and just got lazy or was planning suicide soon after these murders? I am not sure how they would scan the grounds for bodies. I am assuming dogs or some kind of scanning equipment.

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  84. It is interesting that the above commentator mentions suicide. I remember a body being discovered just off from New Rye Rd in that period of time, of a male. I believe it was found in a swampy area just up from the stop sign at end of New Rye Rd. This road runs parallel with Old Deerfield Rd. Both that and the other bodies being found were not publicized much. In fact I really do not remember hearing of the barrel discoveries at the time and I lived within a couple of miles from there.

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  85. Did anyone follow up on Robert Steffen or his family !? Seems like a good lead. Also the unknown poster for 1969 seems very weird like they know more. I know they said 80s but couldn't weather and environment effect the time frame and or decomp of the bodies ? If the unknown poster reads this please come forward with any info even if you think it's not important just send a letter detailing the events and all the details of what you saw and know don't put a name or return adress just help lay theae children to rest

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  86. Forgot to add about Lisa white from CT the women aged 22-33 looks very similar along with the child time frame would match up age 13 when went missing 10 years would have made her 23 and the child would have been from rape and seems to match up please let me know on the two post please been following this case for about 21/2 years

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  87. Katie, Lisa White's name has been passed along not that long ago to the people who do DNA comparisons. As far as Steffen, that was looked into. As you can imagine, so many rumors went around back in the 80s re. this person or that one that decades later it is hard to sort through what is hearsay and what is fact. Ultimately, until someone comes forward with a concrete suggestion as to who the victims are, it is almost impossible to guess who may have put them there. Many men and their families have lived under a shadow of suspicion for decades. In a way, they are victims of this crime too and solving this will give their families closure too. Scott and I very much appreciate the way these men and their families have met with us, been open to what can feel like prying questions (i.e. "Wait, where did you say your ex-wife lived? Missouri? Well we are going to need to contact her just to close that line of research"). Almost without exception, these families have been cooperative and helpful even though at times it felt awkward for both the researchers and the researched.

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  88. Regarding further searches of the property, I don't know how thoroughly or not the area has been searched. That is a question for law enforcement. There is amazing technology out there today- this case in Canada http://www.poynter.org/how-tos/writing/271351/cbcs-effort-to-uncover-bodies-in-a-58-year-old-triple-murder/ has riveted us. I don't think it was ever said that the barrels were the same, but again- only the police would know at this point. Thank you to the person that mentioned the unsolved murder (body found on New Rye Rd). Some strange doings out there. And of course, the still unsolved Debra Horn killing- another little girl from Allenstown found bludgeoned and nude. For a quiet little town, I would have to say it's had more than its share of violent death.

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    1. yes, and to think I lived there then, it is crazy to even think it. It really blows me away. kim

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  89. I lived at the entrance of Bear Brook State Park from 1983-1989 (teenage years) and then moved up off of New Rye Rd. I remember spending many nights partying in the Bear Brook "Pitts" with teenage friends. Those woods weren't desolate, there was always someone you'd bump into. Bear Brook was a place to swim, hike, bike snowmobile, hunt and yes, party. When the hunter found the woman and girl I was surprised at how "quiet" they kept such a horrific discovery (hence many folks never hearing of the case)....I am still mystified that someone didn't see something??? Around that same time I was followed by a neighbor of mine whom my father had already given a "warning" to. I was walking alone to the Park to swim and he followed behind in the woods. Needless to say I was beyond frightened!!! Luckily I ran into a friends parents who were able to give me a ride home. I NEVER walked to or from the park again. One of the above comments also made me wonder if there were perhaps more undiscovered bodies? It's strange to me that in the initial investigation they didn't discover the other two little girls? One would think that finding two bodies would have investigators combing the area. That being said, if the other two girls were placed there after the investigation was over, I still find it baffling that no one would see a man carrying a barrel? One last thing.... I do remember a mans body being found off New Rye Rd. another story that wasn't talked about much. Was he, the man they found, in fact a suicide? I hated driving that road at night. Bear Brook definitely had a creepiness to it........

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    1. I would be interested to hear about the neighbor your father warned you about. Can you email me the name at oakhillresearch@gmail.com?

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    2. wow this reminds me of the time my girl friend and I were followed by someone in the woods. We were walking home to my home at BBG from the park. It was creepy and yeah I didnt walk after that. That was between 1973 -1974 I was a teenager.

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  90. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/lyon-sisters-update_n_5837838.html?utm_hp_ref=cold-case

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  91. The junk yard seems like a logical place to look for barrels. That the bodies were discovered decades apart. It makes sense that the barrel was not there in 1985. That it may have moved there. Due to the 2000 flooding seems a more logical explanation. I don't know the exact flood pattern for Bear Brook that year, however the flooding was extensive all over. If the barrel had a lid on it. When the flooding started. It makes sense that the water could have moved it. That much closer to the brook. Then as the water receded. The barrel got stuck on the tree, or rock in the photo. Find out where that barrel came from. Updates on this would be comforting. This is awful. ValerieRH07@gmail.com

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  92. I don't think flooding could account for the placement of the second barrel as it is so much higher than the area where the Brook is. I'd be glad to hear input from any Allenstown residents about the flooding theory though.

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  93. Has anybody considered that the unrelated child was a step child and may be related to the killer?

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    1. Not only considered it but think that it is the most likely explanation.

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    2. We think that the most logical explanation for this crime is that a man with a child and a woman with two children got together and at some point something went horribly wrong and he killed them all. Perhaps he was a man with domestic violence and substance abuse issues. Perhaps she was a woman already on the move from a similar relationship in her past. The biggest challenge in this scenario is where is the man's ex (the mother of his child) and why hasn't she filed a missing person's report on their child? Or... maybe she has. Or, maybe she couldn't because he killed her too.

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  94. Near the top of this page there is a link with the text, "Woman in picture tentatively identified".

    When I click on the link, I only get a message saying that my account does not authorize me to see the web page.


    When was that link put up?

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    1. Thanks, I hadn't realized the link wasn't working. I just removed the story because people thought it was referencing the Allenstown case and it was actually about another cold case with NH ties. Story http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/12/06/chelmsford-police-seek-info-in-arizona-cold-case-murder/ The man connected to this case -Jack Kalhauser- once lived in NH and MA and I wondered if the case could be connected at all to the Allenstown case. However the woman in the picture has just been identified by family members as being Brenda Gerow out of Nashua NH. I think DNA tests are pending. So likely no connection to this case.

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    2. Oh my god....Brenda Gerow is my sister...My mom tried looking for her.

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  95. Yesterday there was a comment posted here that we chose to remove because it mentioned several living persons. We have reposted the comment but removed both names:

    The man who loaded trucks name was (NAME REMOVED) he was a man that worked carnivals. He was very nice looking but with acne he was bitten by a dog on his left cheek and had a nasty scar. He had shoulder length hair parted on the left. he was about 24/26 5foot ten/eleven hazel or dark blue eye's. He was a police officer? He had a badge. He was from Maryland. The barrels were from NY and carried sealant. Could be used for driveways or mobile home roofs. The family traveled with the carnival and from another country. They lived up above the store and they came to Allenstown NH because of the trucker and his helpers to work . The family originally stayed in a white camper that they lived in before the window blew out in a storm. There were three children and one woman. One of the middle children belonged to the trucker . The woman spoke broken English. One of the most mangled of the babies was a boy? ( I think)The Man who drove truck parked it beside the camper after the murders and The barrels showed up possibly when the mobile home was removed. The moving of the mobile home the burning of the store and the trucker are connected. (DIFFERENT NAME REMOVED). Start there.
    The murder of the two eldest happened across the road from the store. The other two behind store.

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    1. Perhaps this person decided to come forward after your event last weekend?
      I saw the post last night and had a hard time falling asleep.
      I have been checking this case for quite awhile and hope this leads to their identity.
      How would someone know how 'mangled' they were....

      Beth

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    2. I do not mean Country, I mean State. They were from another state, Texas I believe. When I say carnivals I mean that is what I was told by the one with the nasty scar. I lived in the park in 1981.
      I was the owner of the mobile home that was moved across the street behind the store after it was sold I walked almost daily to and from the store and hiked the many trails. I lived in Allenstown only for a short while. I am only trying to help.

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    3. Thanks for coming forward with information. Do you remember any of the females first names? Or how long they were in the area? Beth

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    4. It seems likely to me that if there was involvement with traveling carnivals that the first places to contact about verifying this information and finding out more would be to contact the 3 carnival companies owned an located in New Hampshire. 2 of these have a LONG history in the state and perhaps would know about employees and employees' families that possibly lived or had a connection to Allentown. http://www.carnivalmidways.com/newhampshirecarnivals.html Maryland and New Hampshire carnivals could be checked as well. With the description above, it's my guess this would jog someone's memory of him. Here's to hoping this case is solved in 2015. ~Lisa

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    5. New York and Maryland carnivals listed here, there's quite a few. http://www.carnivalmidways.com
      ~Lisa

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    6. Texas was mentioned, perhaps there was equipment or rides bought from a Texas carnival (again, there are a ton of them) and driven by trucker to New York/Maryland/New Hampshire? Along with the woman and girls. I imagine the carnival industry is pretty tight knit. ~Lisa

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    7. We lived in Nashua in 1985. I remember officers coming to my daughter's school looking for kids who had stopped showing up. These comments reminded me that there was a traveling carnival that came through every year. They used to set up at Simoneau Plaza, I think for April vacation week but it might have been over the summer. I don't remember the name. They had a regular circuit through NH. I do remember that many of the vehicles had Florida or Texas plates. I don't know whether that's any help but I wanted to mention it just in case.

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    8. The Simoneau plaza. Was that owned by people of the same name who lived in the park.?

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  96. How do you know where the people were killed?

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    1. You are good to come forward, many people have heavy hearts over this case. They should all rest in peace.

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  97. The only way someone could know where they were killed is if they were there. Whoever put that comment on here must be involved if they know the locations, or they know what really happened and there trying to throw smoke in front of it. Or there crazy and trying to get attention. Those are the only possibilitys.

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    1. I think this person has been checking this blog for sometime and posting random hints for a while...
      Look back over the posts from the past year or two. Most people go into detail when posting...but then there is a post "Eisenhower Park Long Island New York" and another "the drum may be from NY not the bodies". Then another random post "James robinson" with no other info..and finally the link posted Dec 1st. Read that article. I think they may know some details about what happened and for some reason were scared to come forward. Just my opinion.

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    2. Please do not call me crazy. You do not know me. I was 22 with a baby and after two failed attempts at 911 sending help was threatened. I Did try to help but the police never came. I do not know if the visiting children were those found. I just know of a family visiting the general store and staying in a camper. I know how they were killed because I heard the beating. I am trying to help. I almost stopped again because of rude comments. My husband and I owned the mobile home that was moved across the street to the store in 1981. I shall keep details to myself and talk only to Oak Hill Researchers from now on. Denise

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    3. Don't listen to rude comments. People are sometimes quick to make assumptions. I hope the info you have provided leads to the identities of these individuals.

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  98. Thank you for coming forward with this information. God bless you.

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  99. What year did the store fire occur? And what was the cause of the fire? Has anyone contacted the owners of the store? Beth

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  100. Why were the barrels separated by a considerable distance?

    The one that was discovered in 1985 had the remains of the woman and the eldest child.
    The second barrel, containing the remains of the two youngest children, wasn't discovered until 15 years later and then only during a search prompted by the finding of the first.
    It would seem that this second barrel was much better hidden than the first.

    I think that the first barrel was much heavier and more difficult to transport and the perpetrator was trying to move the heavier barrel toward the other one but
    he gave up in exhaustion or perhaps he strained himself. Perhaps the disposal of the bodies
    was hastily planned or not well thought out. Had he managed to get the
    heavier barrel over to the lighter barrel, maybe they would remain undiscovered
    to this day.

    Was the line from the heavier barrel to the second one perpendicular to the road on which the
    store was located?


    Tim G.

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  101. Tim, given the circumstances and the time lapse, we think that the locations of the barrels are quite significant to this case. Unfortunately, the exact location of where the second barrel was found has never been released publicly so people who knew that area inside out (and who used it and how) have been prevented from weighing in intelligently on this case. From what we have been able to surmise, the second barrel was found up nearer to the store and closer to the property line dividing the store property from the trailer park. Thus, the line between the barrels was not perpendicular to the road but more diagonal. In addition, the land slopes significantly behind the store as you travel down to where the first barrel was found. If someone were trying to move that heavier barrel closer to the other one, they would have been rolling it uphill through the woods.

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    Replies
    1. I recall the man on New Rye Rd. I heard at that time that he had stabbed himself a few times. A very strange way to commit suicide.

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  102. Personally after every article and piece of information I've read about this case my feeling is it takes a very specific type of person to be prone to uncontrollable outbursts of homicidal violence savage enough to murder a woman and three children under the age of 10 mostly likely via blunt force trauma to the head (many articles reference this was probably but not certainly the cause of death) If any of the above is true I have a hard time believing the person responsible for these brutal and senseless murders is still alive. It's been 29 years since evidence of these crimes first surfaced and very likely 30 something years since the crimes actually took place. I don't think it's possible that the man who did this simply moved forward in life and escaped detection, suspicion, getting caught, and moved on to a quiet law abiding life where he carved a spot in life out without letting anyone (that survived anyhow) ever get a peek at the sickness behind the veneer of the mask hiding away a monster. I've read and heard countless law enforcement officers say that if someone commits a crime, covers their tracks well, and never ever tells anyone else what they've done has an overwhelmingly good chance that they get away with it whether it be the robbing of a bank to the brutal murder of a woman and four children. I would have a much easier time believing that someone who haphazardly brutally murders four people is impetuous, violent, and reckless enough to take their own life. I do not think they have the self control, organization, resources and cunning manipulation it would take to matriculate quietly back into normal society with no one but himself the wiser. Perhaps the story about the unidentified man suspected of suicide found in or near New Rye in the same timeframe or the man who came to Allenstown for work with the company paying a $5000 fee maybe good leads for follow. Most trailer parks have somewhat transient nature with many tenants in and out fast enough for no one to notice. I still think that someone at or living there at the time of the crimes may have seen or witnessed something but its possible they don't know until someone asks or prompts them. I believe this case is solvable and I believe the line of questioning being pursued by Oakhill will eventually unlock the piece, the fragment, the ah-ha it's going to take to bring identity, justice, and closure to this case. Keep up the good work Oakhill..... I believe you will figure this one out.

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  103. Thank you for your comment. We appreciate everyone who takes the time to think about this case and to post on here. We also have wondered about whether the perpetrator committed suicide. From following news reports of men who kill their families, it does seem like they often take their own lives. That is why we are collecting memories that people have of individuals who lived in the Allenstown area who suicided.

    However, it is also chilling to read the stories of sociopaths who kill people and seem to show no outward signs of breaking down. These people often continue living in the same neighborhoods, sometimes on the very property where they have a body/bodies buried and if the proximity haunts them, they do not show it.

    I was reminded of the NH case of Russell Bean who disappeared in 1978. Ten years later his body turns up buried in the yard of police chief Robert Chambers who had married Bean's wife Sylvia a year after Bean disappeared. Apparently Chamber's father Clifton offered a deathbed confession saying his son had killed Bean and so they were able to locate the body.

    It seems that Clifton showed some remorse with his confession, even if he just wanted to clear his conscience before he died. But what about the others? Robert? Sylvia? Other friends and relatives? What sociopathic leanings allowed them to go about their lives like they did? And Chambers had just gone through the police academy when they dug up his yard and found his former friend. WTF? You can't even make up this stuff. And no one has ever been brought to trial for Bean's death.

    Stories like that remind us that we can never judge evil by the yardstick of normal behavior.

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    1. Let me be clear that I am not accusing anyone of the murder of Russell Bean.

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  104. Wow, this blog is incredibly informing. First, in my opinion, the 2nd barrel was there the entire time and the APD missed it. I was only 12 when the hunter found the 1st one, but the majority of the adults I was close to did not have much faith that the APD would solve it. I, too didn't hear about the 2nd barrel until recently. So incredibly sad.

    Secondly, I have chills reading Denise's account- please don't stop sharing your story, I am not surprised APD didn't respond to your calls. If I remember correctly, back then we didn't have 24/7 PD.

    Finally, thank you to Oak Hill and everyone on here who has contributed and researched, perhaps this haunting mystery will be solved. -Belinda

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  105. This is what Detective John Sonia said in a 2009 article about the kind of person who commits a crime like this: ... "The woman and the child found with her were killed by blunt force trauma to their heads, Sonia said. The medical examiner did not determine how the pair of children died, he said, but ruled they had been murdered. "This case was particularly heinous and brutal," he said. "It either shows some kind of relationship between the perpetrator and victims that's so close and personal where they were bludgeoned and put in barrels."

    But people who murder their entire families more often use methods like poisoning or shooting, he said. Crimes of intense violence are typically committed against a single victim, he said. "On the other hand, a serial perpetrator, a serial stalker with multiple victims, as we believe they're from one time. . . . That gives a different profile, a psychotic profile," he said.

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  106. I need to know why # 22 Edgewood drive is not on the map. Was #22 the trailer moved to the other side of the road? Is the junk yard you refer to where the store was located? I think # 22 was the trailer I owned. That would have made it the third on the right correct?

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  107. We don't know why #22 is not listed on the map and assume it is the number that belongs on the trailer that has no number by the sandpit. We were given the map and this is how it came. We are not sure what year it is from except that it is prior to 1989.

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  108. Has DNA ever been tested on a Yohanna Cyr from Monteal ? She was 18 months when she disappeared and the caregiver had ties to Boston. 1978. Also, have you ever heard of a Robert Armes suspected of several deaths of girls in Ma. He resides in Nh.

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    1. No to both questions but thank you for that information.

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    2. Robert Armes lived about 15 miles from me when he moved to Lincoln, NH. He was on My radar for Maura Murray as well as Molly Bish and Holly Perraien. He has since moved again but I have not been able to locate him.

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  109. To see who has been tested and excluded as being these victims, one can go to this NAMUS page https://identifyus.org/en/cases/search and look at the 4 victims listed under "Merrimack County." Clicking on each victim will bring up the list of exclusions.

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  110. Nobody knew their name...
    The more we try to free the chains;
    the memory of those four remain.
    The heartache and suffering that fills the air,
    It happened suddenly no warning no clue...
    In the midst of all of us, but no one knew.
    Thrown away with the trash, our hearts collapse,
    We lived in the neighborhood with a dangerous stranger-
    or was he a good friend, guy next door ,
    no one knew just who to trust-
    How many times did he focus on us?
    How could someone do what was done,
    and four Angels waved goodbye to no one.
    Talk about heartache and disaster
    more than one can explain,
    Four angels went off to heaven alone
    and nobody knew their name.
    Days into weeks, weeks from months to years,
    We cry and hope and always we've prayed-
    but nameless and alone those angels stayed.
    We lived in a neighborhood with a dangerous stranger-
    or was he a good friend, guy next door
    no one knew just who to trust
    or how many times he focused on us.
    So much innocence was lost those days
    along with hopes and dreams-all taken away,
    washed away by a dangerous man.
    We need to seek justice-and stay fu@#! mad.
    Don't put us on hold or be afraid to be sad.
    Those angels were among us and no one knew-
    the pain and the suffering he put them through!
    The pleading and begging for him to stop-
    the little tiny angel tears that he forced to drop,
    How could someone do what he done
    and nobody came to help, not one.
    Thank God for Heaven they are safe up there,
    They hurt no more it's true.
    That neighborhood that God damn stranger-
    or was he a good friend, who knew..
    no one knew just who to trust-
    how many times did he focus on us?
    How could someone do what was done,
    and those four angels waved goodbye to no one
    talk about heartache and disaster more than one can explain,
    Four angels went off to heaven alone
    and nobody knew their name
    Denise

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    1. Although they did not deserve what happened to them they were not Angels just as the person who killed them was not necessarily evil.

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    2. It certainly could be the case that someone suffering with mental illness committed a crime that later caused them anguish and heartbreak.

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    3. How could three little children be considered to not be angels ? Nor the person/persons who took the lives of these babies in such a brutal manor not be evil ? To use the word, " WERE", states that you know something more than just what has been researched on this blog and the other sites. Please come forth, even if you do it anonymously. It just could be that you were told something that you need to pass on. It could be the smallest of details that give these children back their names. Please help these children. In God's name I pray," AMEN".

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  111. I don't know who did or didn't cooperate with police. What I do know is that only 2 families have been very selective in deciding what questions they will answer that I have asked. It's kind of puzzling because who wouldn't want to cooperate in giving the names back to 3 little dead girls?

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  112. Tell Denise the reason why police did not respond was because they were parked at the store.

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